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Ian Penman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 469
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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Or, if you like stuff you like it and if you don't you don't! Sounds fine to me!
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 2
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That's odd. I know about comics, and I like Watchmen.Perhaps I'm not here. •• jb:We could only wish! "Knowing about comics" has many layers. I wonder how many of them you truly possess? Or, perhaps you have a forgiving nature. That might explain how you could like WATCHMEN despite it being so -- what's a polite word? -- derivative.
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JB cheap shotslike "we could only wish" really cheapen your position.(but ians battles are not mine to fight
I have been reading and collecting comics for 26 years, and love and own a great deal of stuff from the 1950's to now.
I have complete runs of Daredevil, the avengers, lsh ( with the exception of the first 2 appearances) and nearly every title you have ever worked on.
And i love them all, but i also like Watchmen.
I find it well written and thought provoking and the art is beautiful.
Alan Moore deserves the reputation that he has.
he problem with books like watchmen and dark knight is what came after them.
that other creators could not produce stories as ground breaking as watchmen, and were only able to take the bad lessons from it is not moores fault.
Ps
I also think stories like the galactus trilogy and spider-man no more were also stunning and groundbreaking, they just broke different ground in n earlier time
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Agapito Qhelas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2009
Posts: 263
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
| I have been reading and collecting comics for 26 years, and love and own a great deal of stuff from the 1950's to now. |
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Apparently we've been reading them wrong all these years or something.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133457
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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JB cheap shotslike "we could only wish" really cheapen your position.(but ians battles are not mine to fight…•• And therefore. . . ? ++++ The problem with books like watchmen and dark knight is what came after them. •• DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is a book that came after WATCHMEN. Frank was working on it around the same time I was working on MAN OF STEEL. Jenette was handing out xeroxes of WATCHMEN as the work came in. I was unimpressed. Frank changed direction halfway thru DKR. The WATCHMEN effect was that fast, and that early.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133457
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:56pm | IP Logged | 5
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I have been reading and collecting comics for 26 years, and love and own a great deal of stuff from the 1950's to now.++ Apparently we've been reading them wrong all these years or something. •• Or you're racing to take offense over something that doesn't apply to you.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36018
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| Posted: 30 July 2010 at 11:34pm | IP Logged | 6
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Andrew W. Farago wrote:
| Again, kids are still reading comics, and they've got tons of reading options today that we never did. |
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Speak for yourself, Andrew. I can show you shelves of collected comics I bought in the 70s. I can show you shelves of Peanuts books I bought in the 70s along with a ton of collected comic strips. I can show you longboxes full of comic books put out by both Marvel and DC in the 70s, all of it to a title all-ages. I was able to buy them at the grocery store, the book store, my local comic shop, garage sales, and convenience stores. I was able to get them through Scholastic, purchase them from very nearly every store that sold magazines no matter where it was, or check them out from my local library. I don't know where you grew up or how old you are, but I'm 43 and I had a ton of reading options and far more all-ages material to choose from than the handful of books in a depressingly small all-ages line from either of the big two or the extremely limited all-ages output by just about every publisher save Archie. To say that kids have more options now in this fragmented, disjointed, comic book publishing world is patently absurd. To say that is either being blindly optimistic or intentionally obtuse.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133457
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 12:14am | IP Logged | 7
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Again, kids are still reading comics, and they've got tons of reading options today that we never did.•• Hmmm. . . . 
That picture represents a diversity (look at those titles!!) and accessibility (that would not have been a specialty shop, miles from home) kids today could not begin to imagine.
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Fabrice Renault
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: France
Posts: 3094
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 12:47am | IP Logged | 8
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This is one of the trip I intend to do with my time-machine.
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MIke Keane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 July 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 12:52am | IP Logged | 9
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JB cheap shotslike "we could only wish" really cheapen your position.(but ians battles are not mine to fight…•• And therefore. . . ? Just because it is not my fight does not mean that i am not allwed to point out that a cheap shot weakens your arguement.
++++ The problem with books like watchmen and dark knight is what came after them. •• DARK KNIGHT RETURNS is a book that came after WATCHMEN. Frank was working on it around the same time I was working on MAN OF STEEL. Jenette was handing out xeroxes of WATCHMEN as the work came in. I was unimpressed. Frank changed direction halfway thru DKR. The WATCHMEN effect was that fast, and that early.
Really?
Since the first issue of watchmen came out 3 months after Dark Knight, I find it hard to see how much of an effect it had on Frank Miller's work.
How many issues had Mr Miller done on Dark Knight when the Watchmen Xeroxes were shown?
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Agapito Qhelas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2009
Posts: 263
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 3:21am | IP Logged | 10
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QUOTE:
| Or you're racing to take offense over something that doesn't apply to you |
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Except it kinda does.
You're also wrong about me being "offended". More like "amused". A couple of guys in a message board saying you have to be ignorant of the medium to appreciate Watchmen are not going to change the perception and esteem in which the comic book/trade paperback/graphic novel/series of lines and colors in a paper is held.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133457
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 11
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Or you're racing to take offense over something that doesn't apply to you++ Except it kinda does. •• So -- now you're saying you're someone who doesn't know much about the history of comics, and so thinks WATCHMEN is brilliant? Cuz I thought you were saying you WEREN'T in that group. Pick a gear and stay in it, dood!
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31229
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| Posted: 31 July 2010 at 6:40am | IP Logged | 12
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How many issues had Mr Miller done on Dark Knight when the Watchmen Xeroxes were shown? ************** He just said Frank was "halfway thru" the series. Surely you can do the math.
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Topic Closed)
