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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 11 May 2015 at 6:18am | IP Logged | 1
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it was the "weird book" in comparison to all the other Marvel superhero titles
I liked back then that titles had different 'flavours'. They feel a bit 'cookie-cutter' to me, nowadays.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133497
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| Posted: 11 May 2015 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 2
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Thinking about it, that part is a little confusing. Maybe it has been mentioned before, but from what I have heard, Jim Shooter insisted that Jean Grey had to die because the crimes she had committed as Dark Phoenix were simply too serious to let her get away with it.But if he already knew she had to die when he read and approved the issue before it was published, wouldn't it be easier to just insist that the planets orbiting the sun she destroyed were lifeless in the first place, or at least did not show any signs of intelligent life? Or that the ship she destroyed was ignored by her because they simply observed her destructions? •• First of all, Shooter did not order the death of Phoenix. He has lately taken to claiming that he did, but no. He ordered that she be "taken to a prison asteroid to be horribly tortured for all eternity." When Chris told me this, my response was "F**k that! I'd rather kill her!" Then we come to the lead time. Chris and I were several issues past 137* when Shooter looked at the pages, saw we had done exactly what we'd told him we were going to do, and decided he had to stick his big thumb into it. Some of you may even recall interviews Shooter gave at the time, in which he said he "misunderstood" what Chris and I were up to, and even joked about how he liked his asparagus with butter. ________ * Up to 141, possible even part way into 142.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133497
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| Posted: 11 May 2015 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 3
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I liked back then that titles had different 'flavours'. They feel a bit 'cookie-cutter' to me, nowadays.•• Same people doing all the books, at all the companies. How long has it been since a Marvel book was instantly distinguishable from a DC book?
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8145
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 4
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As a kid, I was drawn to the X-Men due to their outcast status. The Claremont/JRjr run really sold that (oddly I had a love/hate feeling towards JRjr's art during that period), to the point that I avoided the mainstream Marvel titles since they came off as "uncool" to me. Even though I was devouring JB's Alpha Flight at the time, I stayed away from his FF for that reason (except for #243 and #260 - they were just too great for childhood me to avoid). Of course I rectified that as I grew older.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 5
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I was a team book junkie. Anytime a new team/group book came out I picked up the first issue. So Giant Size X-Men was an automatic buy even though I had limited exposure to the previous run. Something clicked and I stuck with the X-Men after it switched back to "Normal size X-Men" and the old numbering. Sadly, these days I wouldn't pick up an X-book with a ten foot pole.
Edited by Mike Norris on 12 May 2015 at 9:52am
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 6
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I wonder what might have happened if Jean Grey had not
died and Dark Phoenix had instead become a recurring
villain.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 7
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Maybe we wouldn't have gotten misunderstood Magneto.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12758
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 8
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The death of Jean Grey just preceded my last years of reading comicbooks. I had such mixed feelings about issue #137 that I wonder whether it helped my decision to stop. It's a terrific story but at the time I thought it was quite unexpected and unaccountable. The prior issues seemed to have a direction other than this sad and, what I felt strongly, permanent ending. I thought that, surely, #137 would present a way to finally resolve the Phoenix problem and save Jean. I had presumed (wrongly) that the cameos in #135 were a clue as to the finale, because how could Reed Richards fail to follow up on a power rivaling Galactus showing up on earth, how could Doctor Strange and the Silver Surfer, likewise aware of Dark Phoenix, not seek "it" out as well?
Moreover, I just didn't want Jean Grey to die! I wanted her back, ultimately, somehow, as Marvel Girl. Really, I wanted what I had desired since Giant Size X-Men debuted: the return of the original team! But, OK, so much of what happened in Claremont-Byrne seemed to me true enough to Lee-Kirby and Thomas-Adams that I was pretty pleased. But, c'mon, don't actually, really, TRULY kill Jean Grey! What a great story, though. Yup, mixed feelings!
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15983
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 9
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I wonder what might have happened if Jean Grey had not
died and Dark Phoenix had instead become a recurring
villain.----------------------- A speculator boom and bust in the 90s, followed by stunt events and crossover after crossover to boost flagging sales?
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Olav Bakken
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Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 12 May 2015 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Some of you may even recall interviews Shooter gave at the time, in which he said he "misunderstood" what Chris and I were up to, and even joked about how he liked his asparagus with butter."
Thanks for clearing it up. Makes you wonder about such decisions.
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Olav Bakken
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2014
Posts: 241
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 1:46am | IP Logged | 11
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"Children of the atom, feared and hated by the world they have sworn to protect - these are the strangest heroes of all, the uncanny X-Men"
A little late reply, but just another comment about the difference then and now.
I'm not sure why they were feared and hated, if it was because of their powers and their appearance, or because the public in general knew they were mutants. If it was the latter, it would have been because of the potential danger they assumed mutants represented; a new master race that in the future could dominate the world and turn non-mutants into their slaves (either way, their true identity was a secret).
As mentioned, with the exception of Magneto and his team and a few others, they were unique. Not sure if that specific team was different from other superheroes because they represented the next big thing in human evolution (non-mutants with superpowers have these days, as many are aware of, been named mutates), or because they were different from other humans already from birth and was considered a new branch of humanity.
(Of course, in the real world there is no such thing as the "next step in evolution", but in the world of comics and science fiction it's a different story.)
Now when they are just a few amongst many, depending on how the mutant population rise and fall, they are no longer outcasts but spokespersons for civil rights movements. Politics and bureaucracy have become much more prominent. People secretly being mutants are "coming out" instead of hiding in the closet. Instead of being a team of superheroes who stood out from rest of humanity, it now feels like they belongs to an ethnic group, which takes away much of what made them feel special. I think preferred mutants when they were a team of individuals with one main thing in common that bonded them together, rather than seeing the same glue between them turning into the fuel of political agendas and mass movements. That's not what dragged me into comics in the first place.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133497
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| Posted: 27 May 2015 at 2:34am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm not sure why they were feared and hated, if it was because of their powers and their appearance, or because the public in general knew they were mutants. If it was the latter, it would have been because of the potential danger they assumed mutants represented; a new master race that in the future could dominate the world and turn non-mutants into their slaves (either way, their true identity was a secret).••• I summed up the reason for that fear and hatred in Senator Kelly's Presidential campaign slogan, back in the original "Days of Future Past." IT'S 1984 -- DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR CHILDREN ARE?
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Topic Closed)
