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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Darragh Greene
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Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 1  

 JD Morrow wrote:
I am seriously tempted to pick up the first issue of The
Atom, though. I really liked the art that was recently posted at
Newsarama....


JD, you should really pick up DC's Brave New World anthology, which
came out last week, for an 11-page in medias res introduction to
Gail Simone's and JB's Atom. It only costs one of your American
dollars, y'know!
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Thomas Gerhardt
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Joined: 14 March 2005
Location: Germany
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:35pm | IP Logged | 2  

..he was absolutely stunning people left and right when he made
Superman his own...
***

In fact, I was pilloried for my work on Superman, and in some quarters
still am.

-------------

Well, I thought it was awesome back then, still think that way now. And it
was together with Miller's DK one of the reasons I bought US comics
again. It was over all very tight writing, I thought.


***

That sounds like you're saying I should change my work to suit your
changing tastes.


------------

You can do whatever you like. It's your life, your career, your decision and
whatever makes you happy, go for it. I'm not a follower, though. I'm not
going simply whereever you go. And as I pointed out, entirely my fault
that I didn't enjoy DEMON and many other things you are doing now. I've
e.g. outgrown the writings of Stephen King, Clive Barker and Neil Gaiman
as well. Still would LIKE you to do something entirely different, but hey,
that's just me.
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Paul Greer
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Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14125
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 3  

I wonder why it is so hard for some Byrne fans to try out his latest DC offerings? I understand that some folks love Marvel and their characters and remain fans of them no matter who is working on them. But if a creator whose work you enjoyed went to another company (JB to DC or a Jeph Loeb to Marvel), wouldn't you give them a chance at their new company if you enjoyed their previous work. I learned long ago that while I loved Spider-Man or Green Lantern, I enjoyed the series more when certain people were doing the book. If the creator were talented enough and you enjoyed their versions of your favorite characters, wouldn't you give them a chance to make a new character become one of your favorites? Just something to ponder when some folks are wondering if the New Atom is worth your time or not.
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Darragh Greene
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Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 4  

Apropos of something upthread, when one must admonish or correct
someone, especially a friend, it's always best to do it in private, one-
to-one. Correcting people in public is unseemly; indeed, such public
correction heightens tension, polarizes arguments and breeds resentment
and discontent. If at all possible, it might be best to e-mail interlocutors,
at least those whose e-mail addresses are public, who cross lines in
public discussion rather than chastise them before everyone else. Such e-
mailing would be akin to taking someone aside in a public conversation,
addressing whatever the problem is, then returning to public discussion
without anyone having been humiliated.

I know the above notion is not 100% practicable or perfect, but stopping
to think now and then whether this or that issue might be best hammered
out and resolved privately rather than in front of the rest of us might just
save someone an ulcer or coronary one day.
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Matt Linton
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Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 5  

I think another thing to remember is that of all those who read comics, only a percentage read superhero comics.  Of that percentage, only a smaller percentage comment in any way on the internet.  And of that smaller percentage, an even smaller group engages in Byrne-bashing.  Some of the bashers are high-profile (Rich Johnston, the bulk of the Newsarama forum) but they're a very small number overall.  

I do think there's a distinction between the knee-jerk bashing that some folks engage in, and someone who is honestly offended by something JB says.  After all, he's a human being, and at times he's going to be wrong, or say something out of line.  Just as some other boards leap all over Byrne when he does so (and often when he doesn't), it sometimes seems like those who do genuinely feel he's wrong about something are lumped in with the worst of the bashers.

Another point, regarding the JBF specifically, is that there are certainly posters here who cross the line (and I'm sure some would include me in that group).  Do some folks get banned who shouldn't, while others who probably should, don't?  Sure.  But that's the way the world works.  It isn't perfect.

Finally, and here's where I think there is a distinction between the JBF and some other boards, the JBF is a forum set up for and run by fans of John Byrne.  It's not designed to be a take-all-comers free-for-all forum.  You can disagree with JB (and any others here) about a wide range of topics, but you're asked to do so civilly (even when others may not be doing you the same courtesy).

I came to the forum as a fan of John Byrne, and because after a year or so of reading it, it seemed like an interesting place to discuss comics (among other things).  I did so, knowing that I disagree with JB and some others here about plenty of issues (and in all honesty, I thought there was a good possibility, based on some of the rumors as well as some of the things I saw, that I'd be banned and/or offended within in a week).  Thankfully, that hasn't happened, probably in part because I put much more thought into HOW I was making my point during disagreements, and being willing to let things drop after I felt I had made my point.

I think the biggest question some of the folks who join need to ask themselves is, if you're not a fan of John Byrne, then why are you here?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:46pm | IP Logged | 6  

Calling people assholes for ordering questionably artistic books is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

***

"Questionably artistic"? Do I really have to do this litany again? Characters created for children's books. Characters not owned by the person using them to do, by his own admission, pornography. One character currently the sole property of a children's charity hospital which depends in part on fees paid by licensees of that character. And this is something to support?

I use "asshole" because Penn & Teller have taught me I can't be sued for so doing. Otherwise, there are somre really choice words I would use.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 7  

If the creator were talented enough and you enjoyed their versions of your favorite characters, wouldn't you give them a chance to make a new character become one of your favorites?

***

Nothing new under the sun. One of Roger Stern's favorite stories is of when, working on THE AVENGERS, he received a letter asking "Whatever happend to George Perez?" George was working on the phenomenally popular TEEN TITANS at the time.

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Darragh Greene
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Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:49pm | IP Logged | 8  

Good post, Matt L.

 Matt Linton wrote:
I think the biggest question some of the folks who
join need to ask themselves is, if you're not a fan of John Byrne, then why
are you here?


Excellent point. Although I do think you ought to include the category of
readers of JB too!

Fan=fanatic; there's no way I'd ever want to be mistaken for someone
whose judgements bypassed his rational and critical faculties.
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Paul Greer
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Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14125
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 9  

How anyone could have missed Perez on the Titans would be beyond me. Wasn't that one of the best selling comics of that era?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 10  

Compared to Marvel? Not really.
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Matt Linton
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Posted: 03 July 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 11  

Speaking of Rich Johnston, we're officially in Bizarro World.  His latest column contains a defense of JB against the whole racism thing, and a recommendation that folks read the Atom.

Not in anyway saying it makes up for his juvenile trend of seeking out "controversial" Byrne statements to fill his column, just thought it was odd.
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JD Morrow
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Joined: 02 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 78
Posted: 03 July 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 12  

Nothing new under the sun. One of Roger Stern's favorite stories is of when, working on THE AVENGERS, he received a letter asking "Whatever happend to George Perez?" George was working on the phenomenally popular TEEN TITANS at the time.

**********
Speaking of Roger Stern, there is another point that I forgot to mention. Guys like Roger Stern and Walt Simonson are two of the nicest guys you'd ever want to meet. Frank Miller is also somebody that I've never heard anything bad said about. How come these guys only say nice things about you if you're such a beast?
Maybe it's just me, but wouldn't those guys be a better guage of what kind of person you are than the countless Byrne bashing crew? I know who's word I'd take in that regard, and when you think about it, it's truely sad that so many others can't put two and two together so easily and prefer to just flock with the other sheep. I can't think of any reason they so readily hate on you, other than the possibility that their own lives are miserable, and misery loves company.
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