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Topic: John Byrne - Threat or Menace? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 1  

 John Byrne wrote:
Everyone is entitled to an INFORMED opinion.

Can I have an AMEN? 

Can we make the understanding of the above statement a requirement of anyone that posts on the net?

Nah.  Didn't think so.  Sad, really, how many debates I've been in where the person I'm debating with has nary a leg to stand on with regard to fact, and, as a last gasp, will toss out the "I'm entitled to my opinion.  No opinion is wrong" card. Sorry, but opinions can be wrong.  They're wrong all the time.  Just because you hold one, especially an uninformed one, doesn't mean that you are automatically excluded from seeking out the truth.

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Jonathan Graver
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 2  

And this is one of the reasons why I prefer this forum.

Edited by Jonathan Graver on 01 July 2006 at 1:04pm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 3  

I tend to steer clear of boards where folks don't (or won't) use their real names.

***

Any opinion -- even an informed opinion -- expressed from behind the shelter of a screen name is rendered automatically invalid, as far as I'm concerned. Courage of one's convictions is one of the few things that make people worth the powder to blow 'em up.

And, after all, no one would be getting up in arms if I was posting as FuzyBuny and not letting anybody know who I really was.

InterNet cowards are among the lowest of the species. Grow some f***ing BALLS, you losers!

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Darren De Vouge
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 4  

The only regret I have about using my real name in this board is the number of entries from it, that pop up whenever I Google my own name.  It's scary.
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 5  

"It's scary."

I feel sorry for the guys really named Rod Odom. 
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Robert White
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 6  

When I look at the title of the thread, I picture a JB cover featuring himself at some convention in a classic "Doctor Doomish" pose, arms in the air, fist's clinched, with fanboys running for their lives in the background.
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Jonathan Graver
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 7  

A la FF #258!  


Edited by Jonathan Graver on 01 July 2006 at 2:35pm
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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

This Interweb is Mine?
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 9  

It's all yours, Tiger, we're going home!
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Thomas Moudry
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Posted: 01 July 2006 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 10  

JB wrote: InterNet cowards are among the lowest of the species. Grow some
f***ing BALLS, you losers!

______

Oh, my...is the discussion of balls returning?!? EEP! :-)
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Jonathan Graver
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 11  



Envy assails the noblest:  the winds howl around the highest peaks.  ~Ovid

Edited by Jonathan Graver on 02 July 2006 at 1:23am
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David Brunt
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 3:46am | IP Logged | 12  

Monster? Rascist? I wouldn't throw those accusations around but I would say that a lot of people I know are put off Byrne the creative because of what they read of Byrne the person on this site. Posts you've made on this site have turned up in news items in comics press and web-sites and perhaps a lot of people have been put off by what they read in those articles. Skewed presentation from the reporters? Maybe but then when they come to this site and look around what they see isn't necesarily going to counter the image.

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Floyd Kermode
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 13  

Envy assails the noblest:  the winds howl around the highest peaks.  ~Ovid

then again:

Dud: You're the devil?

Pete: Incarnate

Dud: You're a bloody loony

Pete: That's what they said about Einstein, Jesus Christ and Newton

Dud: They said it about a lot of loonies too

  As I said, using the 'n-word' doesn't make someone automatically a racist. However using it to illustrate the alleged wrongness of 'thought-bubble' shows a lack of perspective and could be seen as insensitive.   However  wrong 'thought-bubble' might be, it could never be wrong to say it in the same way that it's wrong for me to use the 'n-word'.  I remember the otherwise sensible Damien Broderick having a character say that using 'sci-fi'  instead of 'sf' was as bad as using the 'n-word'. I've used 'sci-fi' ever since.
  Anyway, back to Ovid.......it can be comforting that most of the people we greatly admire have been loathed bymore people than know we exist
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Sean Mulligan
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 14  

I first started coming to this site after one of the "Look at what John Byrne said!" dustups (I don't remember which one at this point).  Whatever was shown on the other website just screamed out-of context, to me at least, and I wanted to see what the whole story was.  To the best of my memory, it was out-of context, and the whole post was not nearly as horrible as people on the other site were making it out to be.  In the time I have spent here, mostly lurking, I have never gotten the impression that you are a racist, or even an ogre. 

However, and I say the following with as much respect as possible, you do come across as a bit of a jerk sometimes.  I believe what the people who know you personally have posted.  I have no doubt that, in person, you are pleasant, funny, whatever.  But I'm guessing that your sense of humor doesn't always translate well to posts on a message board. 

You also have a tendency to be insulting.  I've never personally felt insulted by you, but then again, we haven't really had any contact.  But if I had a nickel for every time you have called someone who disagrees with you an idiot, or an asshole, or some other variation on the theme, I would have quite a nice pile of nickels right now.

Anyone who wandered into this board with negative press about you already in mind would not find those images negated if they look at the wrong threads.  The "Bad Byrne Stories" are hardly your fault.  I agree with the poster above who attributed many of them to jealousy.  But the image you put out of yourself on this board is all on you.  And if you choose to insult, then it is poor form, in my view, to wonder "Why do people think I'm a nasty SOB?".  And I say this as someone who can be a nasty SOB. 

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John Byrne
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 6:09am | IP Logged | 15  

I had a nickel for every time you have called someone who disagrees with you an idiot, or an asshole, or some other variation on the theme, I would have quite a nice pile of nickels right now.

****

Yes, you would. However, if I took back a nickle for every time calling someone an idiot came at the end of a long "debate" in which just about everyone with a brain disputed the person in question, but that person clung to his/her idiotic notions, damn the facts, damn common sense, that pile would shrink rather dramatically, wouldn't it? Like, pretty close to zero.

I don't call people idiots or assholes until they have given their absolute best effort to proving the appelation to be accurate.

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David Brunt
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 16  

Unless, very early on in the discussion, they state their intent to buy a book you don't like the sound of.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:08am | IP Logged | 17  

David, in all fairness to Byrne, "Big Tex" Dave Farabee and he have a long history of interacting on the internet, so what looks to the casual observer as an insult "early" in the debate, was, in fact, very very late in the debate.

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David Brunt
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 18  

If that's the bloke from the Lost Girls thread then I stand corrected. You can see why people end up thinking John is a jerk though from reading the thread.

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George Peter Gatsis
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 19  

JB...

regardless of how "'accurate" the people are... all you are doing is creating MORE fire...

make your point and leave it at that... name calling just gets you more people who have nothing good to say about you, which eventually end up with a thread topic that we are currently replying to....

is your lack of patience ( or whatever more accurate wording place here ) a by product of years of interaction with constant rude / lack of respect / NOT mature people in the comic biz?
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 20  

Byrne calls someone an asshole. Fanboys are outraged !

Alan Moore writes about the private parts of little girls. Of course, the fanboys are merely intrigued. I say the opinion of these folks are about as worthless as their sense of morality.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 21  

Oh, I understand.   Yes, that's the same guy.  I'm not going to say Dave is a troublemaker, but considering how many years they've been interacting on various message boards, I'd say there's a history and context.

I do hear your point - in a perfect world, Byrne would reply to everything with a rosy smile and a warm handshake... but that's not going to happen.  Too blunt sometimes?  Well, from certain points of view.   Here's the key factor - keep in mind that more often than not, the people who are spreading the "outrage" about whatever it is that Byrne has done are people who regularly spread "outrage" about Byrne, and thus, have an agneda which colors their views on the situation.  It's no surprise that you and others who read the various gossip columns and anti-Byrne boards are only shown the quotes in a light that make Byrne out to be the asshole, you know?* 

If you do the slightest ammount of digging, you find the same few names being "outraged" over and over. 

Any kook can show you just enough evidence that the moon landing was faked.  But when he also tells you that Elvis is alive, well, and working at a 7-11 in Atlanta, and so on, you start to smell a rat, and as I say, with the most minimal investigative work, you can discover the sick stalkerish obsessions of these few disturbed individuals.

 

 

 

*Not calling Dave F an asshole, here.  The gossip columnists, on the other hand...

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Dave Farabee
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 22  


 QUOTE:
...a long history of interacting on the internet

You make it sound so tawdry, Mike.

I've posted casually on Byrne's board going back maybe a year or two into the days of the Magnus board. I've agreed with his points quite often, even if I don't always post to say, "Right on," and argued vehemently on a few issues with which I disagree with him. Personally, I don't think I've crossed the line into "damn the facts, damn common sense" territory, but if the host of the board thinks I have (and yeah, I recognize that he didn't call me out specifically in this thread)...hey, it's his world, I just find enough to enjoy here to keep posting in it.

That said, I've never thought of myself as having any "history" with JB. I'm a poster on his board who disagrees with him sometimes. "History" makes it all sound so melodramatic, and as I near a thousand posts, I want to say you could probably look back through 'em all and you'd find only disagreements - not the "troublemaking" you seem to be implying but tiptoeing around.

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Robert White
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 23  

Let's all be honest here. If JB were twenty years younger, and was pen pal's with Joey the Q and Bendis, his persona would be considered to be cool.

Myself, I like interesting people with backbone more than I do people overly concerned with perceived image. Having a temper and speaking your mind, and being a truly bad person, are two completely different things. Occasionally JB will be angered by things that puzzles me, but often I can see were he's coming from.

Unlike some, I originally came to the boards because I was a fan of his work.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 24  

Well, that's fair, too, Dave, but it's not like you're a stranger, and it's not like you've never disagreed with him.

I guess the way I see it is that it wasn't worth all the "outrage" when he said it to you - it was a shrug inducing incident at best.  There are other people, even regulars here, where it would be a more odious crime, but it was, at best, a "meh" moment.

But that's easy for me to say - I'm not the guy he called an asshole... so, let's put the shoe on the other foot - since you, like me, have been around going back to at least the Magnus board days, I think we can agree that there are things that Byrne is pretty clear on, and it's pretty clear what he likes, doesn't like, etc.

Thus, you have the complete fredom to bring up said topics (one notes, despite rumors to the contrary, you are not banned, and you are allowed to think differently), but you are also expected to face the consequences of your actions.

Which, in this case, was that you were called an asshole.  

I keep coming back to this in most discussions about Byrne's on-line behavior, but... let's say I know you don't like eating meat.  Let's say you invite me over to your house.  Let's say I start going on and on about how savory meat is.  Let's say we've had this song and dance before....

Can you look me in the eye and say that you'd smile, hug me, shake my hand, buy me a car, fall to your knees and fellate me?

No, I'd pretty much be expecting to be called an asshole at that point.

I'm not saying you're an asshole, Dave.  I've always gotten along with you... but you're certainly not some innocent victim here.

I often wonder where the outrage is when our own Joe Zhang is called an asshole all over the internet, including on this very board.  I also wonder why, when charges of racism are tossed at Byrne, people "forget" the infamous con flyer that went around whereby the "artist" used some radom Asian guy as Joe.  Our Joe Zhang didn't even rate a real face.  He's just some Asian guy. 

The hypocracy of Byrne's detractors is sickening.

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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 25  

smell roses in spain, you lover



Edited by Mike O'Brien on 03 July 2006 at 2:17am
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