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Deepak Ramani Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 85
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 6:32am | IP Logged | 1
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John Byrne wrote:
The astonishing magic of that first SUPERMAN/SPIDER-MAN book is something that can never be recaptured. Crossovers -- because of stuff like Amalgam -- actually reached the point where the fans were bored with them. Where they were greeted with a shrug, instead of astonishment. |
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Speaking for myself, the "boredom" set in when the crossovers started dealing with second-rate characters. Superman/Spider-Man crosses over the absolute top, most popular characters of the two companies. Green Lantern/Silver Surfer, no matter how well done, simply doesn't have that "Oh my God, I have to see it!" factor for me. Neither did Batman/Punisher or Punisher/Archie.
The most successful inter-company crossovers have some fannish "wow!" factor to them, be it the thought of McFarlane drawing and Miller writing Batman, Superman and Spider-Man together, or just the hope of seeing who'd win -- Batman or Captain America. The least successful just mash two similar characters together and achieve nothing (Batman/Daredevil, for example).
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 2
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JB, sometimes the "imaginary story mentality" can work in the opposite way, at least for me.
If I don't like a story, or I think that it is against everything I know about the character... That's an imaginary story, for me. Like the last 5 years of the Spider titles.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 3
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Ah, but as I have noted many times before,
Francesco, that's not your -- the reader's -- choice.
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
The least successful just mash two similar characters together and achieve nothing (Batman/Daredevil, for example). |
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Depending on when it was done (and, yeah...I know when the actual one was done...just go with me for a sec), there was some interesting potential in a Batman/Daredevil crossover. Specifically, if it were done around the time of the "AzBats"/"Jack Batlin" eras of the books. At least, to me, there was some interesting ground that could've been explored by the meeting of a replacement hero who was trying to give the impression he was the original guy and the original guy who was trying to give the impression he was a replacement.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132401
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 5
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...the original guy who was trying to give the
impression he was a replacement.
***
Hey, it's Mike Murdock!
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 17673
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 6
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The Good Spider-Man/Superman Batman/Captain America Darkseid/Galactus X-Men/New Teen Titans
The Bad Avengers/JLA
The Ugly Batman/Spawn
The Unread Batman/Hulk Superman/Fantastic Four Green Lantern/Silver Surfer Batman/Punisher
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 7
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You're right, "officially" those stories are all in continuity and "real". Handbook will mention them, timelines will include those events. But (seriously, no flame intended!): why should I care for what Marvel decides? I am not bound to accept everything. I'm only a reader, not an editor! And after this, I have a question: in a time that we will call "before", Marvel and DC ignored those stories considered "wrong" or outdated (I remember that a couple of issues during your run FANTASTIC FOUR had this fate before Nathaniel Richards popped up years later). But was there any rule for this? Readers' complains? Stories released later denied those events? And how could the reader know this? Maybe the editors announced that the wrong stories were cancelled?
I'll conclude with this short story: last year a coworker of my father made me use his scanner for the images of my book. I had a copy of MOS #1 and told him that the stories he remembered were "imaginary" because they had no place in the new continuity. His answer? "My stories aren't imaginary. Yours are.". He wasn't so wrong. He never read any stories after the 1960s, so MOS and following stories don't exist, for him. A publisher can create (or destroy, sometimes) his continuity, but for the reader the only important continuity is the one he can see in his library. I haven't bought Iron Man for years... For me, the last 40 issues or so simply don't exist.
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Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 8
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John Byrne:
QUOTE:
...the original guy who was trying to give the impression he was a replacement.
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Hey, it's Mike Murdock! |
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With a heavy armor. Jumping on rooftops has never been so dangerous for poor Matt. Don't do this at home, kids!
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Kyle Sing Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2005 Location: United States Posts: 261
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:44am | IP Logged | 9
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I'd prefer to explore new ground, as with, say, Captain America and Wonder Woman.
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GOD I hope someone at DC and Marvel heard that! An awesome concept! I would hope it would give JB the opportunity to write the WWII Wonder Woman as Diana. Again, it was my only gripe with her /87 reboot that they took the immortal Diana out of the WWII history of DC
The only thing I'd like to see in addition to that is a WWII JSA/Invaders story by JB.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12466
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:45am | IP Logged | 10
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I'd prefer to explore new ground, as with, say, Captain America and Wonder Woman.
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That sounds amazing, JB!
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What is it about the comicbook industry that forces us to take anything that is truly cool -- and not just hyped -- and beat it to death?
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I'm wondering who the "us" is. The fans, the creators, the publishers? And only now or at any time? Was this true 20 years ago? Was this true 40 years ago? I'd be very interested in your opinion, JB. Thanks.
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 11
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Wallace, Batman/Hulk was pretty good, at least for me as a Batman fan. I have no idea if the Hulk was characterized correctly. Nice art, too! Batman/Spawn wasn't nearly as bad as Batman/Punisher, which you were wise to stay away from.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6413
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Posted: 18 August 2006 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 12
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What???...no one has read this jewel?...it was done as a shared universe!
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