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Topic: Question for JB. Unused X-Men plots Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Holy! I didn't see that! WOW! Thanks Paul!
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James Revilla
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 1:23am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Yes but with Jean left alive, you get Rachel and obviously a whole different slew of stories. I am more interesting in seeing what might have been rather than a retelling of what already happened.
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Al Cook
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I wasn't talking about a retelling of what already happened. I was talking
about the stories John would have told himself from Jean's death on. New
ones. That made more sense that the crap that once-beloved book so
quickly devolved to once he left....
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Cory Vandernet
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 7:35am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Question for JB

Your departure form the X-Men was pretty sudden and must have caught Claremont and Shooter by surprise and if I recall correctly, X-Men 144 penciled by Brent Anderson was the same plot outline that you recieved from Claremont. Had you received any other plots from Claremont before you quit the book?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Chris and I had been on "phone plots" for quite some time when I quit the book. Somewhere around 113, as I recall, we stopped doing written plots. Chris and I would talk stuff over, and then one of us -- usually me, when it was Roger -- would call the editor and firm stuff up.

What happened in 144 bore but fleeting resemblance to the story that had been worked out before I left. It's the first example of the Byrne-Free Zone X-MEN.

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Joel Biske
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I'm another one who is just finding this thread....

It's interesting to me to think about what we would have gained and lost it these plot/ideas had gone more or less as written. With no Days of Future Past AND no JB FF... at least early on...

Where would Marvel be today without these two occurrences?


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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It's interesting to me to think about what we would have gained and lost it
these plot/ideas had gone more or less as written. With no Days of Future
Past AND no JB FF... at least early on...

••

Not sure how you loop "Days of Future Past" into this. . . ?
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Joel Biske
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Not sure how you loop "Days of Future Past" into this. . . ?

---

The "Days of Future Past" wasn't in that plot list on page one, was it? It's the first time I'd seen the thread.... if that synopsis Cory posted on page one have proven true, you (JB) would have been on the book until at least #150, without having done the DoFP storyline... at least to that point...

or did am I missing something somewhere?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"Days of Future Past" was my idea. Chris kept saying he didn't want to do
another Sentinel story, because "Sentinels are lame." I said "No, you just
write them as lame!" And I came up with the DoFP storyline to show
just how kick-ass Sentinels could be.

Unfortunately, Chris' contributions to the story -- Senator Kelly and, yes, yet
another failure for the X-Men -- proved to have a much more lasting impact
than my self-contained story.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

What's wrong with failing superheroes? Don't you understand irony, JB? The concept of the anti-hero? Post-modern comic books? Post-post-modern comics? Po-po-mo-co-bo?

So much of everything at Marvel post-Stan Lee turned into convoluted gibberish.

By vivid contrast, that's why the JB FF was so startling -- oh yeah! THIS is how to do it!

As for the X-Men, post-JB -- no, no, no.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

What's wrong with failing superheroes?

••

Nothing -- unless it's pretty much all they do!

The thing that burned my biscuits about DoFP was that I had come up with a
story that was a clear win for the X-Men. They saved the day, no ifs, ands
or buts --- and Chris, by the inserting of a couple of captions that had
nothing to do with the picture took that away. And, of course, opened
the floodgates for all the crap that was to follow.
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

could someone point out the captions so I can cread my
Essentials in the know, please?
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Pascal LISE
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Mr Byrne, do you see any ressemblance between your creative struggles with
Chris Claremont and the Kirby / Lee association ?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

…could someone point out the captions…

••

The panel right near the end where Kate "kisses" Kitty.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Mr Byrne, do you see any ressemblance between your creative struggles with
Chris Claremont and the Kirby / Lee association ?

••

Not really. That was a clash of titans. Chris and I were more like gnats
bumping into each other in the dark.
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Joe Smith
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:34pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

jeez, thanks, JB!
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Pascal LISE
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Not really. That was a clash of titans. Chris and I were more like gnats
bumping into each other in the dark.

••

A bit too modest I would say… because, you gnats, gave us the dengue fever
during your X-Men days !
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Much as then are many -- fans and pros alike -- who like to kid themselves otherwise, when it comes to Marvel Comics, there are Stan, Jack, Steve - - - - - - - and then everybody else. And even in our time, Chris and I were late to that particular party. Sure, we made some noise, and (not necessarily a good thing) it sometimes seems that ^^***** can't do anything without referencing our work -- but what were we doing, other than referencing Stan and Jack (and Roy and Neal)?

There's no modesty involved in keeping a realistic perspective!

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Joe Smith
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Was thinking that same thing, JB.

You had Roy wanting to live up to Stan,
You wanting to live up to Neal and the King,
and countless others wanting to live up to you,
but Stan and Jack? These guys were inspiration by
perspiration all the way, from what I've read.
Bless their hands and hearts!
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Joel Biske
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Unfortunately, Chris' contributions to the story -- Senator Kelly and, yes, yet
another failure for the X-Men -- proved to have a much more lasting impact
than my self-contained story.

---

Seems to me that the reason for that is Chris' continuance on the title... using the new future universe as he saw fit.... Rachel, Nimod (wasn't that the name of that pink Super-Sentinel thing?), Bishop, etc. Once you left, they once again became HIS toys to play with.

I wonder how things in the Marvelverse would have panned out if say, you had left X-Men without having done DoFP... but had taken the story with you to FF and reworked it to an FF story.... after all, the Sentinels WERE in the Baxter Building and Franklin WAS part of the future storyline.... could have told it from THAT point of view....

Just a thought....


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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Unfortunately, Chris' contributions to the story -- Senator Kelly and, yes,
yet
another failure for the X-Men -- proved to have a much more lasting
impact
than my self-contained story.

---

Seems to me that the reason for that is Chris' continuance on the title...
using the new future universe as he saw fit.... Rachel, Nimod (wasn't that
the name of that pink Super-Sentinel thing?), Bishop, etc. Once you left,
they once again became HIS toys to play with.

===

I wonder how things in the Marvelverse would have panned out if say,
you had left X-Men without having done DoFP... but had taken the story
with you to FF and reworked it to an FF story.... after all, the Sentinels
WERE in the Baxter Building and Franklin WAS part of the future
storyline.... could have told it from THAT point of view....


••

Again, in my story, there was nothing further to tell. That future ceased
to exist.

••

Toys that were not supposed to exist. Surely my point is not all that hard
to grasp?
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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 3:18pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

JB:

How difficult was it for you, personally, to leave X-Men?  Clearly, the move worked out well but were you at all worried you were making a career killing decision?  Were you at all nervous about it? 

What was the hardest book that you chose to quit? What the one which you left with the heaviest heart? 

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Joe Smith
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

wow. great q g!
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Brad Hague
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Furthering Geoff's line of questions for Mr. Byrne:

1.  Have there been any titles for which you worked on that you wish you had left earlier than you did?

2.  Which title were you most happy to leave?

3.  Are there any titles left on which you previously worked for which you feel you have unfinished business?

4.  Are any of the titles you worked on at Marvel "fixable" at this late stage?  (I get the impression that DC has rebooted their characters so many times, that it's almost assumed that any writer/artist can reboot and fix a DC character on a whim).

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Don Mayer
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Posted: 09 September 2008 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply

Now those are the stories I'd like to see how JB would have told...

*****

Which is why, if heck freezes over, I would love to see JB on Exiles where he could play with anything anyway he wants.  The team could go to the Phoenix world or Robot Cyclops world or the what would have happened with the FF if he had stayed world, or (my favorite) FF never had powers world!

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