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Chris Campagna
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 1  

You know, I am not even arguing JB's points, which I actually agree with in part. It's simply his choice to call the man an asshole that I am at odds with. It was completely unnecessary, and wholly (no pun intended) insensitive.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 2  

"...Mr. Irwin was widely criticized in 2004 for feeding a snapping crocodile inside a pen while holding his infant son, Bob, in one arm. Though some likened the action to child abuse, he said he had been in firm control of both the child and the crocodile. He was never charged with endangering his sonís welfare."

***

Jesus. . . !!!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 3  

I've heard of people being killed when those big trucks that haul logs topple. Should we shut down the roads while those big-rigs are running?

***

Did all you guys flunk Analogy? This illustration works only if the people killed habitually chased after the logging trucks, deliberately positioning themselves within the danger zone.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 4  

Irresponsibility? Res ipsa loquitur.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20040102-2041-au stralia-crocodilehunter.html

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 5  

Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a Pogo Stick!!!!

I border on being GLAD this asshole is dead!
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Michael Casselman
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 6  

Furthermore, the analogy only works if scores of people are killed by stingray attacks. Only 17 documented deaths exist. Apparently it was spooked by his swimming close to it at one point, and it went into defensive mode. It could have just as easily been another swimmer, and it could just as easily hit an appendage. Fluke accident.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20349888-2,00.html

As for the twice-cited 'taunting alligator with a baby' incident, had it not happened so shortly after the "Michael Jackson dangling a baby out a window" incident, it wouldn't have been such a big deal and sparking nowhere near the 'moral outrage' that it did.

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Dave Carr
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 7  

Remember folks, JB is stating an opinion that Irwin is an asshole and that he borders on glad that Irwin is dead.  It has no more validity than my own personal opinion that JB has absolutely no couth, tact, nor class.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 8  

As for the twice-cited 'taunting alligator with a baby' incident, had it not happened so shortly after the "Michael Jackson dangling a baby out a window" incident, it wouldn't have been such a big deal and†sparking nowhere near the 'moral outrage' that it did.

****

You CANNOT be serious! The guy used his own child to tease a crocodile. Do you really think people needed Michael Jackson's outrageous performance to tell them this was a bad thing?

Hell, Jackson's antics were arguably less insane than Irwin's. At least he "only" dangled his kid out a window. There was no danger the window would suddenly jump up and devour the kid!

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David Miller
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 9  

"Arguably" being the key word here.  Personally, I like to think there exists a morality that judges dangling a baby out a window with one hand and offering a child to a crocodile with the same clarity. 

From what I've read, though, Irwin didn't bring his son in to tease the crocodile.  As far as Irwin was concerned, it was "bring your child to work" day.  Still crazy, but not quite the same thing as actually taunting the animal with a sweet, juicy infant.   
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 10  

Still crazy, but not quite the same thing as actually taunting the animal with a sweet, juicy infant. ††

***

He offered the croc a "choice" of a live baby or a dead chicken. Dear God, can you honestly think there is any moral ambiguity to this? The man shouldn't be dead -- he should be in prison.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 11  


 QUOTE:
"But it's all about perceived danger; I was in complete control," said Irwin, flanked by his father, his wife and 5-year-old daughter Bindi. "People say, 'Well, what if you had fallen?' But for that to take place a meteorite would have had to come out of the sky and hit Australia."

Crazy much?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 12  

"People say, 'Well, what if you had fallen?' But for that
to take place a meteorite would have had to come
out of the sky and hit Australia."

****

Or the enormous crocodile could have dropped back
on all fours and bitten your fucking leg off, you
moron!

I revise my original statement. I am GLAD this
asshole is dead. Sorry for his wife and kids, but
relieved they are in no further danger from his lunacy!
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Fredderick Jones
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 13  

Considering that Irwin was raised around crocs, his family owning the Australia Zoo he took over, for him to have no fear of having his son with him, is not immoral.

The guy was raised, worked, and lived around crocs. He knew them, their habits, and his limitations. For him, having his young son there was nothing more than what he was introduced to as a child himself.

Animal Planet had some great documentary shows on last night about Irwin and his life, what he did for the environment and conservation, and why he did the things he did. I would urge alot of you people who think he was an "asshole" to watch them. Sure, your opinions are just that, yours...but better they be informed ones, than what's been spewed forth today.

I'm going to put my red-sweater on now after reading this crap. A guy died doing what he loved, what he wanted his children to do,  and by what is more or less a fluke accident. Considering what's been said in the past about people like Christopher Reeve (who I've admired very much), this just cements some things I've been debating with myself for a few months now. I've tried to keep my love of the man's work seperate from the many things I've felt crossed lines of taste, tact, and just plain understanding. I just can't do that anymore. 

Consider my membership here resigned. I now know what a real "asshole" is.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 14  

Glad to see you gone. If you see nothing "immoral"
in endangering the life of a child, I don't want you
here.
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George Peter Gatsis
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:00pm | IP Logged | 15  

JB,

Logically you are correct, blunt and correct at the same time...

BUT,

Putting yourself into another (JB's a jerk (or whatever the THEY want)) position to be talked about in a negative light (more based on emotion's than logic) is it worth it?

Irwin is dead, do you want his death to be more (how ever F#$%ed Up THEY could be or are) fuel for the fire?

Sure Irwin was irresponsible... heck as a married myself with kids, I sometimes have to pause and think about safety to the family.

I took the kids to the CNE yesterday, and all I could think was where are the girls in location to myself and my wife... right up until we got back to the car and headed home. That may not be much of a comparison, but to my life, it could be the most concerning...

Was Irwin stupid? I don't know, he has accomplished alot in his life.

Was it an axcident? Nope. Like you said the hazards were expected while Irwin was doing his show. An axcident is walking down the street and getting hit by a stingray (not the car)...

Bottomline your blunt response to Irwin's death is... (place IS here)...

IS it worth it?


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Dave Carr
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 16  

There were no less than 6 handlers in the pen with Irwin.  That crocodile had the distinction of being the oldest and slowest in the park, not to mention the fact that it had been fed 3 times already.  The media chose that particular photo because it hides the additional handlers just feet away from Irwin and his baby, not to mention because of the perspective.  It makes it look like Bob is much closer to the croc than he actually is.

I put my kid in more danger every time I put her in a car.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 17  

I put my kid in more danger every time I put her in a
car.

***

Deliberately?
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 18  

No matter your feelings with regard to Irwin's death, I can't honestly believe anyone is actually defending his choice of bringing a baby into a croc pen.  I really don't care how many handlers were in the pen with him, how old the croc was or how many times he was fed.  It was irresponsible to the highest degree to even bring the baby into the pen, much less get close (and he was close enough to actually feed the croc) with your child in your arms.  What's not shown in the picture is when the croc turns away, Irwin takes his child and walks him across the ground as if he was running away from the croc.  I'm sorry if bringing this up is insensitive, and I have no doubt that he loved his children, but this act was reprehensible.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 19  

Putting yourself into another (JB's a jerk (or whatever the THEY want)) position to be talked about in a negative light (more based on emotion's than logic) is it worth it?

****

Oh, I am SOOOOO far past caring! I could announce that I was selling everything I own and giving all the money to charity, and there would be people who would find fault. I cannot be bothered with them.

But I AM bothered when I see people shedding tears over someone who is an irresponsible, egotistical, apparently virtually insane asshole.

Get this one absolutely clear: the endangerment of children gets ZERO TOLERANCE in my book. This guy should have been taken out of the croc pen, had his kids taken from him, and been thrown in the deepest, darkest, dankest pit the Australian judicial system has to offer. Preferably after being skinned alive.

"Asshole" is too good a word.

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David Miller
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 20  

JB: I said that Irwin crazily put his son in danger, which I thought offered about the same level of moral ambiguity as your defense of Michael Jackson. 

What Irwin did was crazy and stupid, but he wasn't offering his baby to the croc.  That's your interpretation, one not backed by Irwin, the authorities, or any of the news coverage.  Granted, as far as the crocodile was concerned, Irwin might as well have been effectively offering a choice between a dead chicken or a live baby, but as far as everyone in the pen was concerned, Irwin was was an expert and a professional who was holding his son while he fed the thing.  Thatís a huge difference in intent. And intent makes the difference between stupid and evil.   

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 21  

I have no doubt that he loved his children...

****

Dang funny way of showing it!
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Teod Tomlinson
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 22  

I could see the car comparison working if you inserted your child into a
race car then entered a nascar competition.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 23  

What Irwin did was crazy and stupid, but he wasn't offering his baby to the croc.

***

Semantics. Look -- is there any part of the following statement that is incorrect?

HE TOOK A BABY INTO A PEN WITH A LIVE CROCODILE.

Is there any part of that statement that can be justified in ANY way, assuming the baby not to be safely encased in a steel box? And even then --- no. No excuse. No justification. The man should have been thrown in jail forever.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 24  

I could see the car comparison working if you inserted your child into a race car then entered a nascar competition.

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Bingo!

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 05 September 2006 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 25  


 QUOTE:
His American wife, Terri, who handed the baby over to Irwin in the enclosure and giggled at the spectacle, was quoted in the Herald Sun as saying "it was a wonderful sensory experience for him (the baby). He dug it."

Crazy much?

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