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Topic: The Final Nail in the Coffin (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Roger Jackson
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Posted: 19 November 2006 at 11:28pm | IP Logged | 1  

Well, in Books Of Doom #6 page 20 this was published

Yuck! That's really awful. Fortunately, I never read that book, so as far as I'm concerned, it never happened. Problem solved.
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 19 November 2006 at 11:36pm | IP Logged | 2  

Doom's face should never be seen by the reader.  (Claw's face should never be seen by viewers either.)

"Or the old
Choose Your Own Adventure books.  Remember those?"

Fondly.


Edited by Wallace Sellars on 20 November 2006 at 7:42pm
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 2:09am | IP Logged | 3  

Another suggestion for what should be behind Doom's mask is to show a silly kitty face just going "Meow!".

I think that Wolverine needs to become the next person that the elders of the universe want to see mated with a Cotati. Or he could become a herald of Galactus. Think of all the action figures!

Then we could have Kang find out that he is really Henry Pym and have him go mad in an Atlantean amusement park where he battles with the Corrupter, Maelstrom, and the U-Foes. 

Then someone could just turn the lights off and lock the door.



Edited by Emery Calame on 20 November 2006 at 2:15am
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George Peter Gatsis
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 2:51am | IP Logged | 4  

THE UNMASKED DOOM COMICBOOK PAGE "BOOKS OF DOOM" in the page before is a DOOMBOT.

That is not the real doom... It's even expressed in the story. I flipped and read the page at a comicshop... never bought the book thou.


Edited by George Peter Gatsis on 20 November 2006 at 2:51am
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Greg Kirkpatrick
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 5  

As Emery had guessed...Is this the true visage of Doom as Mr Golden drew for us..sorry, best image I could find
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Ray Dyas
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 6  

I don't get the wanting to see Doom's face mentality. For the very brief time when I was younger  that I thought it may have been a good idea, that quickly ended when I saw Return of the Jedi & Darth Vader's unmasked face didn't compare with what I had pictured in my head. Whatever someone puts on paper as being Doom's face will never equal what the readers have envisioned in their minds. For me,those that want to see the face obviously lack any imagination & can't picture a face under the mask.
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:27pm | IP Logged | 7  

Thanks, George Peter Gatsis!  Jason Fulton went out of his way to hide that particular revelation as spoiler text, while you just barge in an let it all hang out.  I missed the first couple issues of the book, so I was going to wait and get the trade so I could read the whole story.  Good job!

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 8  

 

I thought in the old Dr. Doom origin by Lee/Kirby that Doom's face was not so mutilated by the lab explosion, but when he had the Tibetan monks forge his armor, he was so desperate to conceal his face that he had the mask attached "red hot". Essentially, it was a sado-masochistic act in a time before the word really even existed in the general populace.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 20 November 2006 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 9  

 

How many nails does Marvel get for that coffin? All the Kirby/Ditko/Steranko/Adams/Buscemas/Colans in the world don't make up for what the arsehole hairs running that show have done to the characters and the company.

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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 3:02am | IP Logged | 10  

Going back to the earlier post about FF # 200. That was the entire point that defeated Doom completely in that issue the sight of his own face when Reed Richards ripped his mask off. The sight of his own face multiplied over and over again in the Solatron complex drove Doom in to a state of madness.

If he can't stand the sight of it why should anyone else be able too?

Plus can we not at least leave certain things open to the readers imagination thses days or are too many fans wanting to be spoon fed everything by people producing comics who have forgotten Len Wein's golden rule?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 6:10am | IP Logged | 11  

I thought in the old Dr. Doom origin by Lee/Kirby that Doom's face was not so mutilated by the lab explosion, but when he had the Tibetan monks forge his armor, he was so desperate to conceal his face that he had the mask attached "red hot". Essentially, it was a sado-masochistic act in a time before the word really even existed in the general populace.

***

That was my version of the "origin", not Stan and Jack's. I combined what they had done with a couple of extra-textural "legends".

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Don Zomberg
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 12  

This reminds me of an interview Quentin Tarantino did about twelve years ago on Tom Snyder's show, when PULP FICTION was all the rage. A caller got through, and with his one chance to ask QT ANYTHING, what did he throw out?

He wanted to know what was in the briefcase.

Why are so many people so effing stupid?

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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 13  

I always thought Doctor Doom would look like Julian McMahon under his mask.
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Greg Kirkpatrick
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 14  

That's a mask?  I thought he was a robot.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 15  

I've been saying that M***** is dead from some years...unmasking Doom is as stupid as giving Wolverine back his memories or unmasking Spider-Man....

Ouch....i broke another nail!!!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 16  

...unmasking Doom is as stupid as giving Wolverine back his memories…

***

I'll go a step further back, since I think it was incredibly stupid for him to have "lost" his memories. "You never asked" was a much better "solution" to the mysteries of his past.

Of course, once the fanboys are in charge. . .

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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 17  

I remember reading an interview (which is still available on the net) regarding Larry Hama's treatment of Snake Eye's in the GI Joe comic, and him being asked about revealing Snake Eye's past, etc.

Larry Hama went along the lines of revealing a small amount, and then just letting it be, with little snips of dialogue coming out that would be left up to the reader to interpret whatever way they wanted. Larry talked about how having a mystery man like that gave the series its appeal and if you took away the mystery were was the appeal.



Edited by Greg McPhee on 21 November 2006 at 12:55pm
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Moyer Hall
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 18  

Wow it's Doom the crypt keeper!

---------------
Greg McPhee wrote:

If he can't stand the sight of it why should anyone else be able too?
---------------

I freak out at a pimple on my face! That what I always liked about imagining
Doom's face, as horrible as it may be, only he would think it's as bad to go
insane over, others in the MU would be like "huh?"
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Todd Hembrough
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 19  

I combined what they had done with a couple of extra-textural "legends".

----

What are extra-textural 'Legends'?  Where does one stumble upon them?  Is there an interesting story behind this?

Thanks,

Todd
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Greg Kirkpatrick
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 20  

incredibly stupid for him to have "lost" his memories

****

Now, I started reading Uncanny X-Men at issue 117 and read it for way too long after...Thinking about it, when did we become privvy to Wolverine having 'lost/false/implanted/whatever" memories?  For the life of me, I am not sure...Maybe I have lost memories too.  But, seriously, I can't think when this became canon for Wolverine.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 21  

The whole point upon which any thought of revealing Doom's face turns, tho, is that whatever's under the mask is supposed to be so horrible even he cannot bear to look at it. I can't imagine any artist being able to pull off a rendering of something that bad, something that you wouldn't get used to after a while -- in the same way Ben Grimm has gotten used to (mostly) his disfigurement.

++++++++++++++++

Yeah, there are really two schools of thought on this (Lee and Kirby's schools, basically):

1. (Kirby) Doom has only a tiny scar on his face from his accident, but his massive ego causes him to feel that his face is so horrible that he cannot even bear to look at it.

2. (Lee) Doom's face was badly damaged in the lab accident, and really is a horrible mass of scar tissue (which has long since been proven to be the case).

As I've said in the past, I think your fusion of those two great ideas was a masterstroke JB. It really was the best of both worlds.

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George Peter Gatsis
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Posted: 21 November 2006 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 22  

ROGER:

I am sorry for spoiling the ending for you... really sorry...

as for me... I was ready to buy all the books at the end of the run and read them thru... but when someone told me that the book is a delusional account of a DoomBot allowed to remain running by Doom himself... that's when I asked myself... why the F#$%K not make it a "what if" book or "elsewhere" book... what a waist of time reading a detailed history only to find out it is just a delusional account... that blows...
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John Byrne
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Posted: 22 November 2006 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 23  

I think your fusion of those two great ideas was a masterstroke JB. It really was the best of both worlds.

****

Thanks! Looking back, I find it amazing how easily I was able to do that. There were no gripes at all (at least, none written, none that I saw or heard), when I did "True Lies" and revealed the "fused" version. I wonder if I could have gotten away with that in the age of the internet? As I have pointed out, Kirby's idea that Doom's face had only a small scar was clearly an afterthought, since he drew the bandaged Doom without a nose(!!) in the origin as seen in FF5.   

If I tried to do that story today, I'll bet 500 people would post that original image to prove I was futzing around with the "creator's intent".

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George Peter Gatsis
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Posted: 22 November 2006 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 24  

I never even batted an eye lash when you did Doom's FUSED back story... it was so well executed, it felt right....
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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 23 November 2006 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 25  

Here's my take on this "Final Nail in the Coffin" thing: they haven't set it on fire yet.  They have to set the coffin on fire now!

About Doom's face and Wolverine's origins, I've felt pretty much the same way as most of the others who've posted here.  Giving us a few hints and mentions actually does more to inspire our imaginations than if we were just handed a bloody bucket full of entrails as they seem to do with most Hollywood slasher flicks.  Certainly, I've had my fanboy episodes where I tried to sketch out in my mind what Doom's face looked like -- look at the issue of FF where micro-sized Sue reacted to it!

The difference between myself and the crew which took over the helm of Marvel Comics recently, I think, is that I matured and they didn't.  Somehow, Joey Q and company have gotten into the Hollywood mode of putting the bloody guts in peoples' hands and screeching "Accept it!" instead of actually trying to work their stories around the characters and settings they inherited.  At the beginning, it looked like there was some hope that sane, knowledgable management was back in Marvel.  That was a false hope; they're in full crossover overkill mode here, and it might affect Marvel in the same way that Image and a few others have been affected.
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