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Rafael Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Posts: 413
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 1:48am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| Watchmen -- the earlier
Squadron Supreme story told the same tale and did it better -- the only
reason this story was so popular, and the only reason it eclipsed the
Squadron Supreme story, and the reason it has endured is the undeniable
attraction of the cutely benign, iconic yellow smiley with the bloody
bullet hole in its forehead. |
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I'm sure the reason Watchmen is widely regarded as the best comic book ever, the only one who appeared in TIME's list of Best Novels of this century is all due to the bloody smiley. Nothing at all due to the depth of characterization, or the themes touched upon, the brilliant structure and amazing art. Nope. All due to the smiley.
Anyway, back on topic. I'd say Superman, Spider-Man or Batman killing would be a few of those. Resurrecting the Waynes or Uncle Ben definately rank high, too. In current, present continuity, I mean. Alternate timelines and Elseworlds are always nice to explore those kind of ideas. More specific examples would be the aforementioned Sins Past, or Spider-Man revealing his ID to the public.
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Rafael Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006
Posts: 413
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 1:51am | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
| Not sure I entirely agree that "nobody even seemed to notice" New Frontier.
I've heard almost universal acclaim for the thing, both in comic and
mainstream circles. Certainly that acclaim is what drew me to pick up
the snazzy Absolute Edition,
after having never read the book in its initial release. That, plus
it's going to be the first of DC's direct-to-DVD animated features.
Hardly seems like the kind of attention accorded to something that
disappeared quietly into the night. |
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Even though, with all due respect to J. Bodin, the statement that Watchmen success is due to the bloody smiley is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read in a message board, I agree that New Frontier should get even more acclaim than it has, just because it's so damn brilliant.
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 1:52am | IP Logged | 3
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Having re-read Watchmen again just recently, I gotta say, what a great friggin' story.
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Bob Simko
Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 5982
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 2:13am | IP Logged | 4
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Having re-read Watchmen again just recently, I gotta say, what a great friggin' story.
********************************************
I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I found (and still find) it so predictably derivative that...other than the amazing artwork...I can only read it and respond with: "Eh..."
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 2:14am | IP Logged | 5
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Well, I'm glad that you're glad that I'm glad.
So there.
:-)
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Jonathan Stover
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Posts: 749
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 6
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Batman: Year One really expanded upon the Dark Knight problem (ie. taking that great series as a 'real' version of Batman's later life). B: YO is a fine story, but some of the stuff it brings in (especially Catwoman as dominatrix prostitute) should never have been allowed into the official history.
I'll expand this to Years 2 and 3 for a different reason -- too literal a coding of what happened in a superhero's career. I'm a lot more comfortable with a non-date-specific timeline dating backwards (ie. Byrne's timeline in which certain things in the Marvel Universe always happened 9 years ago, for instance) rather than forwards (here are Batman's first three years! Enjoy!)
As much as I liked some of the changes to Wonder Woman post-crisis, I'd add a lot of her early reboot run to my 'Nevah!' file. Partially, I do this because a superhero's origin shouldn't go on...and on...and on. Partially, I do this because moving Wonder Woman so late into the formation of the post-Crisis DCU really buggers the idea that Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman form an early triumvirate who inspire others to become superheroes.
Just my two cents!
Cheers, Jon
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132344
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 5:54am | IP Logged | 7
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Resurrections of characters whose deaths were
central to the lead character's origin.
Deaths of characters because "there are no more
stories to tell."
Revelations of previously unknown siblings (99.99%
of the time),
Revelations of "hidden agendas" in origin stories.
In general, retcons that turn central characters into
different people than we thought they were.
Marriages.
Births.
Divorces.
(Basically, any stories that create distinct "moments
in time".)
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Brian Crispkey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2006
Posts: 80
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 8
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"I think the bad stuff starts with the rise of the X-Men about 150 issues
after JB's departure"
You don't think that 'Days of Future Past' was telling us what the X-Men
were undeniably destined to become?
'Dark Knight' was invalidated as Batman's undeniable destiny the moment he
didn't retire after Jason Todd's death, surely?
Your insights into the Watchmen are a little strange as well.
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Stephen Sadowski
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 March 2006
Posts: 334
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:06am | IP Logged | 9
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Frankly, I'm VERY surprised that neither Superman, Batman nor Spider-Man have had "official" sons yet.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12448
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 10
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Anything that smacks of "a very special Blossom" -- like Tony Stark becoming an alcoholic and recovering in one issue.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132344
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 11
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You don't think that 'Days of Future Past' was telling us what the X-Men were undeniably destined to become? *** "Days of Future Past" told us the X-Men had changed that future. It was later retcons that told us they had not.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132344
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| Posted: 03 February 2007 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 12
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Sure, it appears that the Winter Soldier is Bucky, but we're dealing with the Cosmic Cube here folks and to those who read the story where Captain America "reminds" the Winter Soldier that he's Bucky--let's just say that he could just as easily have imprinted his knowldedge and impressions of Bucky upon this former Soviet agent. *** The return of Bucky, whether it is a hoax or not, should have a profound and permanent effect on Steve Rogers. Bucky's death -- for which he considers himself at least in some part responsible -- is still a recent even in Steve Rogers' life. Tearing open the old scars, as with this "return", should mess with his head in ways we can't begin to imagine. The Captain America who emerges from the "Winter Soldier" storyline should be a very different guy from the one who went in. Is this the point of the story? To turn Cap into a different character?
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Topic Closed)
