Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Sports Talk
Byrne Robotics > Sports Talk << Prev Page of 231 Next >>
Topic: The Squared Circle Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2824
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Austin was bigger than Savage and Flair, I don't consider him a small guy that Vince went with.

To be fair to Benoit in WCW, he left the morning after winning the world title so he didn't have any opportunity to make any kind of statement. His title run in WWF didn't draw well though.

The danger of underdog stories in wrestling is that while people want to see some guys win the title, they often don't want to see them HAVE the title. Even Sting suffered from this, people got into him chasing Flair and Hogan, but once he'd win the big match, his star tended to fade. But Mysterio, Benoit, Guerrero, even Punk - people seemed to love the *idea* of them becoming world champion, more than they loved them being a month in-month out defending champion (and, sure, Mysterio's booking was abysmal.)
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The danger of underdog stories in wrestling is that while people want to see some guys win the title, they often don't want to see them HAVE the title. 

***

An important and profound point, sir.

It can be about the booking, you're right. I remember Rey Mysterio losing a lot of TV matches during his reign. Sure, some were to giants (didn't Mark Henry or Great Khali defeat him?). Whatever a person's size, they should be booked strongly during a reign.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Good points, Robbie and John. Seems to me the smaller guys tend to have better luck chasing the title rather than defending it.

Austin stands at 6′ 2″ (252 lbs) which is average by Vince's standards.

The big guys Vince loves as main event stars are typically 6' 5" and up, 300 lbs or more. (Hogan, Andre, Undertaker, The Rock, Batista)

Heck, Brock Lesnar is lucky since he's just 6′ 3″/ 265 lbs!! LOL

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Had the likes of Hogan and Warrior not went on hiatus in the early 90s, I am sure they'd have been the ones main-eventing the likes of SURVIVOR SERIES '92 and dominating the WWF scene during the mid-to-late 90s.

*******

They didn't just go on "hiatus" now, did they? Warrior and (later) Hogan grew difficult for Vince to handle and they had to go. (Plus, their stars were fading as became evident in WCW - pre-NWO.) Vince was then put in the position to go with HBK and Bret Hart on top. Pickings were slim after the steroid scandal.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 12 October 2017 at 10:35am
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 12 October 2017 at 12:10pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Well, Hogan sort of went on hiatus in 1992, it seemed to be his choice, whatever the pressure was.

I've heard so many conflicting reports about Warrior, that I don't know what to believe. One source claimed he asked for a higher salary in late 1991, but was fired; another told me he practically walked over a dispute pertaining to a WM VII payoff.

I've heard two different stories about his 1992 disappearance. One was that Vince fired him, another was that he was going to quit anyway due to disapproval over a potential feud with Nailz. 

Some of those contradictory stories have appeared in magazines. It was a UK wrestling magazine, around the mid-90s, that claimed Warrior got the boot in 1991 due to demanding a higher salary whilst another source claimed Vince fired him for something or other.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 15 October 2017 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Bought this DVD recently:





As many of you may know, the XWF appeared not long after WCW was sold to the WWF. It lasted from late 2001 to 2002.

Perhaps partly because of people missing WCW, I remember many at the time stating that the XWF would become a permanent rival to the WWF (wishful thinking, I guess). It didn't happen. Sadly. People also thought the WWA, in existence from 2001 to 2003, would become a major competitor, but that didn't happen, either.

I haven't watched the main disc yet (it runs for 174 minutes and has matches such as AJ Styles VS Kid Kash). But I did choose to watch the 3 bonus features.

The first was an introduction to the XWF. The likes of Gene Okerlund prepared us for the XWF show; Ace Frehley appeared for about a nanosecond; and there was a clip of what was to come.

The second feature was a Q&A session with Hulk Hogan. There were no major revelations, but he talked about what he liked about wrestling, who his favourite opponent was, etc.

The third bonus was a match between Hulk Hogan and Curt Hennig (2001). It was quite short - and was exactly what you'd expect from either man, Hogan dominating early on, Hennig getting some moves in, Hogan making a comeback, etc, etc. Pretty much identical to the matches they had in the WWF, circa early 90s. Not saying that is a bad thing.

I shall watch the main feature at some point.

Looking back, it's a shame no major competitor arose from the ashes of WCW's demise (yes, I know WCW "lives on" but only as part of the WWE video library). TNA, or whatever they are called now, aren't competition. I do remember, and I cannot fault wishful thinking/enthusiasm, people, perhaps even myself, having high hopes for the XWF and WWA in 2001/2002. What saddened me about watching the bonus features on this DVD is that everyone seems to want to make XWF work, many (not just Hogan) express positivity about its future - and yet it didn't last long.

Technically speaking, the XWF, at least its trademarks/copyright, lasted from 2001 to 2011. But nothing happened. House shows were scheduled at various points. The aforementioned DVD was released in 2005. And as 'recently' as 2009, there were talks of a PPV. Whilst the promotion, in a sense, did exist from 2001 to 2011, it was only really active in 2001/2002.

I never really expected any promotion to become a major rival to WWE (that would take time, money and resources), but I feel saddened that, although there are many promotions in the US (and globally), WWE is really the only game in town. Would WWE have been airing shite like the Diva Search, which often dominated RAW, had it been up against a major rival? Food for thought. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2824
Posted: 15 October 2017 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I read Jim Ross's autobiography over the weekend and I have to say it's extremely disappointing.  It's very slight and anecdotal and he doesn't really go into details about the wrestling history he lived.  It also stops abruptly in 1999.  He's barely in Mid South for a chapter or two before it's the UWF and then the UWF is gone just like that.  His personal story, I hate to say, is somewhat lame.  At least it doesn't add much to the story of his career that he's trying to tell and tie together.  

Or maybe I just always assumed Ross was a bigger deal than he really was and, in the end, he was just a guy who worked in wrestling a lot, but didn't really have much to do with it.  I find that hard to believe, though.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 2:58am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I've been disappointed with autobiographies, too.

Bless him, but Roddy Piper's autobiography didn't go into detail the way I'd hoped. Had little to say on some parts of his career.

Bret Hart's autobiography may have been long, but he covered pretty much every major milestone.

Austin's autobiography was okay to read, but he seemed to gloss over his time in WCW. He was there four years and had some great matches as TV Champion so more would have been nice.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2824
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I do think Mick Foley set the bar way too high for wrestling autobiographies - I guess I expect everyone to handle their careers with that much depth! But I'm so interested in the history of wrestling, particularly in the 70's and 80's, that I hate to see a missed opportunity to learn more about it. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 16 October 2017 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I agree, John.

Piper's book glossed over so much. I expected it to be twice the length.

There were surely four years' worth of anecdotes Austin could have provided about his WCW tenure.

I'm also wondering for how much longer autobiographies will be compelling. The thing is, Kayfabe Commentaries, who are starting a streaming service, do so many shoot interviews which do get to the heart of things.

Their shoot DVDs include TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WWE, TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WCW, BACK TO THE TERRITORIES, BREAKING KAYFABE, etc. Bret Hart did one for TIMELINE: THE HISTORY OF WWE where he covered 1992 in depth; there's the YOUSHOOT series where fans get to ask questions via social media; and Kevin Nash has done at least four shoot interviews that I know of.

Books and shoot interviews are different things, but given the choice between a book that glosses over important moments, and commentaries that delve into things in detail, I know what I'd choose.

For anyone unfamiliar with Kayfabe Commentaries, here's the type of shoot interviews they do:


And you really need to buy or stream this one:

Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Jericho's autobiographies are right up there with Foley's... lots of details plus humor and he covers all aspects of his long career including the music career he's had. I enjoyed reading them... especially his first run in WWE.

-C!


Edited by Charles Valderrama on 17 October 2017 at 12:52pm
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

What about Hulk Hogan's book?

I'm sure some of it was fiction. And what's this mention of being at Wembley Stadium in 1992? Hogan was NOT at SUMMERSLAM '92. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 17 October 2017 at 5:36pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

I'm not sure if this is available outside the UK, but a new wrestling magazine, WRESTLETALK, has been published (available as a print copy or digitally):

Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 23 October 2017 at 12:37pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

WWE/WWF THIRTY YEARS OF SURVIVOR SERIES is out on DVD today:


(Yes, I am going to say WWE/WWF. Before the panda charity got involved, there was a WWF and they weren't called WWE when Survivor Series began).

There's a reasonable mix of matches on the disc, although if you already own collections like the SURVIVOR SERIES ANTHOLOGY, there's little point in buying this - except for maybe the documentary. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 24 October 2017 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

What about Hulk Hogan's book?

*******

I stopped listening to Hogan's BS a long time ago. I WILL recommend Bret Hart's book. Very detailed and honest.

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3370
Posted: 24 October 2017 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

Apparently, WWE is making this year's Survivor Series a "brand vs brand" event.... Smackdown stars "invaded" RAW and that beatdown was among the worst I've seen in years on the show. Execution should've been better as we've seen this years ago with the Invasion angle with WCW.

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 24 October 2017 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I agree about the "brand vs brand" event. You're right, Charles.

I enjoyed SURVIVOR SERIES 2005, I felt the build-up and execution were good.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 25 October 2017 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

Twenty five years ago today, HALLOWEEN HAVOC '92 aired on PPV:





This was a pretty solid event.

I enjoyed the build-up to the Sting/Roberts match. And the match itself was reasonable. I wish Sting and Jake had wrestled more times. I wish Jake had stayed with WCW for longer.

It's funny how the ***WORLD TITLE*** match (WCW Champion Ron Simmons defending against the Barbarian) was excluded from almost all the hype. I know Sting/Roberts was the bout probably selling more tickets, but I've always believed the importance of the world title should never be downplayed.

I'm not saying a world title bout should always go on last - WM X-8 made a mistake in trying to follow Hogan VS The Rock with a WWF Championship bout between Chris Jericho and Triple H - but it should receive some hype.

It happened the following month at STARRCADE. Ron Simmons defended the world title against Steve Williams but Sting/Vader and the Battlebowl matches received 99% of the hype. 

No conspiracy, by the way, just a marketing failure, in my view. If you hadn't been paying attention, you may not have even known of the Simmons/Barbarian or Simmons/Williams matches prior to the events; I don't recall them receiving much hype or build-up at all.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5582
Posted: 25 October 2017 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

WCW didn't seem to have much confidence in Ron Simmons as champ. Could be because Bill Watts was a major racist.

What really stinks is, Simmons could have been a bigger star than he ended up being. But his drug issues didn't help. When it comes to spinebusters, there are only two wrestlers anyone should look at if they want to copy from the best: His and Arn Anderson's. I tend to refer the Simmons' version as the "get the hell off me!" spinebuster.




Edited by Brian Floyd on 25 October 2017 at 7:12pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 26 October 2017 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

I'd have liked a longer world title run from Simmons.

It just seemed bizarre that the hype/marketing/advertising for HALLOWEEN HAVOC '92 and STARRCADE '92 featured little about Simmons' title defences.

I understand Sting/Roberts having top billing at HH. And I guess I understand Battlebowl dominating STARRCADE, but it's disappointing that two consecutive PPVs featured little hype for Simmons' world title matches.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2824
Posted: 26 October 2017 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Watts is probably the only reason Simmons became World Champion. Whatever Watts may or may not be or have been, he's always pushed an African American in a top position when he's been in charge of a wrestling company. JYD drew huge money for him in Mid South and he constantly tried to replicate that. Simmons was another example of that. Without Watts it's unlikely Simmons would have been pushed at that level.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 26 October 2017 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

So, guys, what's your favourite Hell in a Cell match?

I don't think any has really topped the Shawn Michaels/Taker one from IYH 18: BADD BLOOD. There may have been many more with stunts and spectacles, but for sheer intensity, the Michaels/Taker one is my favourite.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2824
Posted: 26 October 2017 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

It's tough to top that first Michaels/Taker match. For one thing, there's a match in there, it's not just a couple big spots, it was a great match before they did the crazy stuff toward the end. And, especially for that time, it was REALLY bloody for WWE, which I loved.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 26 October 2017 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Well said, John. I do think some that came after were defined by spots, for better or worse. I don't necessarily think that's a good thing.

I mean, I can't recall many moments in the Taker/Mankind match - other than two major spots. But many moments/moves in Michaels/Taker are in my head.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8624
Posted: 27 October 2017 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 25 post reply

I'm reading rumours of Michael Cole ending up in the Hall of Fame. Thoughts?

He has as much right to be in there as others, if not more.

But on his own merits, I'd say yes. He's been a solid announcer for 20 years, never resorting to clichés or sounding tired (well, at least as not as many clichés as others). He has genuinely sounded enthusiastic in every bout he's commentated on.

True, he's not flawless. "This one is over..." prior to a person kicking out seemed to be a thing between 2003-2006 (I've noticed it less after that period). I wasn't a fan. But although, and I love him, the likes of Jerry Lawler seemed to fall back on clichés or resort to uninspired commentating, Cole seems to have taken his job seriously over time.

There's doing a job badly and being unacceptable in the role (it is a distinction). Cole may have done his job badly at times, but I remember many great moments. 


Edited by Robbie Parry on 27 October 2017 at 8:23am
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 231 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login