STAN: I really don't know what to say about that. I honestly don't understand it. Years ago, when I wanted to do SPIDER-MAN, I called Jack and told him: "I want to do a character called SPIDER-MAN who sticks to the walls, who does this and who does that." And I told him I wanted him to draw it, how I wanted it done, and I told him I didn't want it done in his usual style. I didn't want the character to look too heroic or too monster-like. I wanted him to look like an average guy. Jack did a few pages. I saw them and said, "No, it is all wrong. Let's forget it, Jack. It is just not your style." I took it away from him and gave it to Steve Ditko. I don't know whether this is the case or not, but maybe when Ditko did the story, he used the costume that Jack created. I don't remember. I guess Ditko and Jack are the only two guys who know that. If Ditko is still around, I'd appreciate it if you would ask him and let me know the answer. And if, indeed, the costume is the one that Jack originally drew, that may be what Jack means when he says that he created SPIDER-MAN. But in no way, shape, manner or means did Jack Kirby create SPIDER-MAN. I don't even know how he can dare to say that. It is the one strip that we did that he had virtually nothing to do with at all, except for a few pages that we never used.

JIM: I think it was in an interview in Will Eisner's SPIRIT magazine that he said he and Joe Simon had come up with a character called the Silver Spider. Jack went on to say that he was pushing you to do superheroes at Marvel, and you were his vehicle to get it to Martin Goodman and start the Marvel Age of Comics.

STAN: Well, I think that Jack has taken leave of his senses. I have never heard of the Silver Spider. Jack never pushed me to do superheroes. What happened was, one day, Martin Goodman called me into the office -- this is when Jack and I were doing all those monster stories -- and Martin, who was publisher at the time, said: "You know, Stan, I've just seen some sales figures for this DC magazine" -- it may have been the JUSTICE LEAGUE, but I no longer remember -- "it is doing pretty well. Maybe we ought to do some superheroes." And I said, "Fine." And he said, "Let's do a team like the JUSTICE LEAGUE." And I said, "Fine." I went home and wrote an outline, a synopsis for the FANTASTIC FOUR. And I called Jack, handed him the outline, and said: "Read this. This is something I want to do. And you should draw a team." Jack, of course, contributed many, many ideas to it. And I would venture to say that Jack and I co-created THE FANTASTIC FOUR, in a way -- although the name was mine, the characters were mine, the concept was mine, originally. But he never pushed me to do superheroes. Jack was at home drawing these monster stories, until the day I called him and said: "Let's do the FANTASTIC FOUR." I think Jack is really -- I don't know what to say, I don't want to say anything against him. I think he is beginning to imagine things.

DAK: I know he did some work on the recent FANTASTIC FOUR cartoon series for Marvel Productions. I'm wondering if you ever saw him or worked with him?

STAN: I haven't seen Jack in a couple of years. Considering all the stuff I hear he is running around saying, it is probably just as well that I don't see him.

JIM: Getting back to SPIDER-MAN, you're still working on the syndicated strip, right?

STAN: Yeah, well, Jack will probably claim he does that, too