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Topic: JB: any "classic characters" you just don’t get? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Andrew Gonoude
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 1  

Chad Carter: "Then, I really got him (Namor the Sub-Mariner ) during the John Buscema series (talk about an Essential that needs to happen)."*

 *emphasis mine.

AMEN!  From your mouth to da Q's ear, brother!

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Robert Carolgees
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 2  

I never got the Punisher either - I got the motivation of the character, that's all relatively straightforward and simple but it's how he interacts with the rest of the marvel universe that makes no sense to me.

I've lost count of the Spiderman, Daredevil stories where they just let him walk off into the distance at the end of the team-up! The guy is a killer!
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 7:59am | IP Logged | 3  

I've never gotten Thor

****

John M, I really have to agree -- and Thor is nearly my favorite character!

I've never figured out what it means to be a "god" in the Marvel Universe, especially when I was introduced to the Norse pantheon through Lee/Kirby, when it seemed like they were the most powerful race and Odin clearly the most powerful single figure. Unleashing the Odinsword would end the Universe! Mjolnir repelled Galactus! WOW!

But that made me have trouble "getting" Thor. He'd face a far less than awesome foe and I'd think, why is this a problem? Thor is a GOD! Isn't he? What does that mean? Count Nefaria stops Mjolnir with his hand? Really? Not that I didn't love that or other Thor-related stories! I just don't "get" him and his kind.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 4  

As I have noted elsewhere, and with the clarity of hindsight, I think Stan and Jack made a mistake when they decided to make Thor the "real" Thor. "Whosoever holds his hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of THOR(R)!" That was really all I needed to know. But, of course, the rest of the Norse mythology began appearing early on, so it was only natural (if a tad anal) that fans should start writing in wondering what had happened to the real Thor.

I would have preferred it, tho, if Stan and Jack had chosen to reveal that Thor had died in some suitably cosmic fashion, and his life-essence had been placed in the hammer, perhaps by Thor himself (tho he was not a particularly bright guy!) in a last ditch maneuver. The idea of Don Blake being an invention of Odin's never really sat well with me.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 5  

Thor is a GOD! Isn't he? What does that mean?

It means he's an immensely powerful supernatural being, several levels above human. That's what gods were, before the Judeo/Christian/Muslim concoction messed things up.

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John Mietus
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 6  

Yeah. It's like, if you're the Norse mythological embodiment of the concept
of storms and thunder and lightning, the personification, manifestation, and
weilder of a specific force of nature, with a myth cycle all of your own,
wouldn't being a superhero be somewhat, I dunno, mundane?

I mean, not to take anything away from some of the fine work of Lee/Kirby,
or Simonson after him, or any of the other fine creators in between or after
who have handled the character, but I just don't get the idea of the Norse
God of Thunder slumming it by being a superhero and going on adventures
with the likes of Captain America and Hawkeye.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 8:47am | IP Logged | 7  

wielder of a specific force of nature

***

It boggles the mind, really, the power of Thor, even at a far, far less than Jehovah-like omnipotence. Can you imagine being able to conjure up a hurricane?! WOW!

But Don Blake also stumped me when Thorr became Thor because Stan Lee took such care in the writing to make him a real character and not merely some kind of humanoid "trap" for the godling. I liked Don Blake! But if he's just a shell... then... GAH! I'm confused!

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John Mietus
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 9:26am | IP Logged | 8  

My introduction to the (Marvel Comics) character of Thor came form the
'60s cartoon, which of course was based quite literally on the early Lee/
Kirby comics. And I was really into the character... until the "real" Loki
showed up and started harassing him.

If it'd been a guy who, like Don Blake, had also found some stick that
gave him the "powers of Loki", then I would've been okay. But the fact
that he was really Loki?

That's when they lost me. Completely.

And no, I don't care for either Marvel or DC's versions of Hercules/
Herakles, or the fact that Diana's mother is the mythological Hippolyta,
either.
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Eric Lund
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 9  

I have all the Buscema Sub-Mariner comics and got them on the cheap back in the late 80's in mint condition for next to nothing... I think John Buscema's run on the Sub-Mariner rivals his Silver Surfer and in ways surpases it....
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Jason Schulman
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 10  

I was never that into Thor either, though the Simonson run was great fun. I tend not to be interested in mythological/supernatural characters as superheroes. Science-fiction or science-fantasy characters work much better as superheroes, IMO. 
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:14am | IP Logged | 11  

 

Two words: Tiger Shark.    All around great tough guy villain.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 12  

In my opinion, the problem with Thor wasn't the concept as much as the execution.

There just aren't a lot of well-written Thor solo stories before the Simonson run. Even the early non-Kirby stuff isn't nearly as good as most other Silver Age Marvel.

The classic character I never got was the Silver Surfer. He's too cosmic - it's hard to relate to him on a human level. Plus, I thought he was way too whiny.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 13  

There just aren't a lot of well-written Thor solo stories
before the Simonson run.



?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 10:40am | IP Logged | 14  

Just an opinion, of course. But I can't think of many defining Thor stories or runs before Simonson's classic tenure.

In fact, I always thought the Kirby-driven "Tales of Asgard" back-up stories usually were better than the main Thor stories, other than Kirby's own Thor stories.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 15  

 

People shouldn't sleep on the nice issues Simonson did around the 260s of Thor's 1970s comic. An epic battle with the Destroyer, inhabited by the spirit of Balder, brings the Thunder God to his knees. Then there's the whole Eternals/Asgardians war, and the subsequent revelation of Odin's plan to stave off the Judgement of the Celestials (which honestly read better when I was younger, but is still pretty interesting).

I'm gonna be honest...my favorite issues of Thor were recently discovered in the DeFalco/Frenz run:

 

 

The scope of this particular arc thrilled me. Without spoiling the hell out of it, Thor encounters a Celestial "World-Killer" who makes the other Celestials look like kids. This arc has one of the coolest Thor moments I've ever seen: Thor INSIDE the Celestial, trying to destroy its brain; losing his hammer, almost completely beaten, Thor refuses to despair and attacks the Celestial's brain "shell" with his bare hands and teeth. That may never be topped for Never Say Die.

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Ryan Maxwell
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Posted: 31 August 2007 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 16  

Being a Marvel guy up until Man of Steel, and only reading JB's stuff while he's been there, I don't 'get' Hawkman and Hawkgirl/woman.  And seeing discussions about Carter Hall vs. Katar Hol or whatever doesn't help.  Maybe if I went digging for some of the Kubert stuff that is spoken so highly of around these here parts, I'd change my mind.
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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 01 September 2007 at 12:50am | IP Logged | 17  

Maybe if I went digging for some of the Kubert stuff that is spoken so highly of around these here parts, I'd change my mind.

***

 Even if you don't like the stories, and I suspect you will, the art in those alone is worth it.

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Chad Carter
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Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 18  

 

Hawkman and Aquaman in particular need a certain kind of milieu to work at their best. They're not the kind of characters that you can plug in anywhere and go with, in individual titles.

Hawkman works better in a kind of RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK adventure setting, where both his brain and brawn and his impressive visual can be fully explored. I'm saying Hawkman belongs on one of those pulp covers from the 1930s, mace-battling men with elephant heads in the Dark Heart of Africa. Matter of fact, he has (not from the 1930s, but)!

 

 

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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 01 September 2007 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 19  

It would have made sense if Blake HAD NOT turned out to be the real Thor. The cane might simply have been a remnant of Ragnarok, with other relics waiting to be found out to generate Odin and such.
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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 01 September 2007 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 20  

I was never really satisfied with the whole Don Blake thing. It didn't detract from my future enjoyment of stories, but there was a funny feeling of disappointment inside me when it was revealed that Blake was an invention of Odin's. It's hard to put into words, but it just didn't feel right.

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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 01 September 2007 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 21  

Hawkman
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