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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 8:44am | IP Logged | 1  

You sound like a modern day comic book Carl Sagan, JB, explaining the great X-Cosmos.

••

It's sad to think it needs "explaining". The concept Stan Lee came up with was so simple, so clear, so easy to explain. Mutants are people born with an "extra" ability. Wings. Eyebeams. Ape-like qualites. This served the book for sixty plus issues, tho it was, to be sure, never a chart-buster.

Then it went away, and when it came back there were already inklings of what was about to go wrong. We had Storm, whose vaguely defined power to "control the weather" soon became as fluid as Green Lantern's power ring, basically serving her in whatever form she needed. (Does warping the unstable molecules of her costume into an evening gown really constitute "controlling the weather"?) There was Nightcrawler, whose list of powers was as long as this tail, and growing. And pretty soon the idea of just who or what constituted a mutant became so garbled that I really did get a letter to FANTASTIC FOUR from a fan who described them as his "favorite mutants". "Mutant" and "super-powered being" had become interchangable.

sigh

Didn't help when the book itself started shifting and changing into whatever Chris (and later writers) wanted it to be. It's a book about magic! It's a space-faring title. It's about time-travelers from the future! It's about alternate timelines (just to make sure the X-Men never, ever, ever WIN. If they win here, it just means they lost over there.)

There aren't many stories I regret having been a part of -- but of the ones I do, the bulk of the list is on X-MEN.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 2  

…all of those copycat "back from the future X-Men", Bishop…

••

And it was only thru my intervention -- I was scripting over Jim and Whilce's "plots" -- that Bishop was not from a different "alternate future"! That was how he was presented to me, and I said "Oh, come on! We already have one incredibly tangled thread coming out of an existing 'alternate futue'! Do we really want to add another one?"

(Of course, I was eventually to realize, looking at the "new breed" of talent, that this would be pretty much standard operating procedure. "I really liked this story/character from my fan days! I am going to create my own version!" "Create" here used in the most generous form of the word.)

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Thad Studebaker
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 3  

And pretty soon the idea of just who or what constituted a mutant became so garbled that I really did get a letter to FANTASTIC FOUR from a fan who described them as his "favorite mutants". "Mutant" and "super-powered being" had become interchangable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JB,
The guy who ran the LCS I was buying my comics from in the early-to-mid eighties once told me that he read an article or heard (I don't remember which) that Marvel was considering revealing that all of the super-powered beings in the MU were really mutants.  Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Sue Storm, et al, were all mutants that needed an accident or experiment to bring forth their mutant abilities.

Was this ever considered or just pre-Internet rumor mill grist?

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 4  

This sounds like a twenty-third hand version of Chris' notion that many of the established characters were mutants. Reed was a mutant because he was so smart, for instance.

Luckily, this never went anywhere. At least, not so far.

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Aaron Smith
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 5  

That's utterly assinine! By that logic, anyone with a talent thast most people lack would be a mutant. JB, you draw so quickly, you must be one! Your code-name will be Pencil-Blur!
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 6  

The guy who ran the LCS I was buying my comics from in the early-to-mid eighties once told me that he read an article or heard (I don't remember which) that Marvel was considering revealing that all of the super-powered beings in the MU were really mutants.  Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Sue Storm, et al, were all mutants that needed an accident or experiment to bring forth their mutant abilities.

***********

SER: This is perhaps the first domino in the horrible "fan-think" we've seen of late. It's not "realistic" to be bitten by a radioactive spider and not just die -- or to be exposed to gamma radiation and not just die... So, Parker and Banner had to have been "latent mutants." Aargh. This just adds needless coincidence on top of coincidence.

As I've often said, if you didn't have problems with the origin when you were 10 but do now that you're 30, maybe it's not the origin that's the problem.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 7  

The absurdity of what some people will deem "realistic" never ceases to astound me. As I have mentioned before, my "favorite" instance of this madness was the OHOTMU entry for Fin Fang Foom, which indicated that, altho he had been show speaking, this was probably telepathy. Cuz, you know, a 200 foot long telepathic dragon is so much more realistic than a 200 foot long talking dragon.

Puts me in mind of the fans who complained when I suggested -- in interviews, never overtly in the books themselves -- that for Superman's powers to work as they do, at least some of them would have to be psi. I was scolded for trying to make Superman too "realistic".

What color is the sky where these people live??

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 8  


 QUOTE:
As I've often said, if you didn't have problems with the origin when you were 10 but do now that you're 30, maybe it's not the origin that's the problem.

Agreed, Stephen. I never had a problem with the origins. Still don't. You enter the world of comics on it's own terms. People bitten by radioactive spiders? Fine by me. Cosmic rays turning a man into a huge Thing? That's okay by me (and many, many others).

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 9  

I gave an interview once upon a time, in which the interviewer asked me what I thought would really happen if someone was bitten by a radioactive spider. I said that so far as I knew, the experiment had never been done, but if it was, I expected there would be one of three results: nothing would happen, or the person bitten would die, or the person bitten would gain the abilities of the spider.
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Steven McCauley
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 10  

The guy who ran the LCS I was buying my comics from in the early-to-mid eighties once told me that he read an article or heard (I don't remember which) that Marvel was considering revealing that all of the super-powered beings in the MU were really mutants.  Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Sue Storm, et al, were all mutants that needed an accident or experiment to bring forth their mutant abilities.

Sounds a lot like DC's Meta-Gene -- which has been properly forgotten.

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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 11  

This springs, as do many of the ills besetting comics these days, from those darned fans-turned-pro again. I was talking with Walt Simonson the other day, and it was amusing to hear him present as an independent thought the notion that there are too many fans who have become pros without checking their fan mentalities at the door. Walter has long said he gets to the same point I am at eventually, it just takes him a few years longer.

I, of course, have been bitching about this for a long time. As more and more fans come into the business, and, more importantly, as fewer and fewer of the Old Guard remain to show them how to do it right, increasingly we see the "professional" comics turning into what amounts to little more than fanzines --- and fanzines have always been the domain of those "story ideas" that should never, ever get into the real books. Only now they do.

And a lot of that is all about explaining everything. When I have encountered fans who object to some explanation of a point I have offered in one of my stories, it is almost always from the stance that that would not be the explanation they would have offered (which is usually far more complicated). So, it is not sufficient that Peter Parker was bitten by a radioactive spider an a confluence of elements happened to be just right for him (and we would like to think him alone) to get the abilities of the spider transfered into him by the radioactive venom. There has to be more to it. Like a meta-gene. Or like him being already a mutant.

Not, in other words, just a regular guy. So many fans don't want the characters to be "regular guys". They, the fans, are themselves "regular guys", after all, and they know that if a radioactive spider bit them, they would not get any powers out of it.

On the other hand, they love the "dark" characters, like Wolverine or the Punisher, who, they know in their hearts, behave how they, the fans, would behave if they had the powers or the weaponry.

Sad.

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Sam Karns
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Posted: 04 September 2007 at 1:03pm | IP Logged | 12  

But not true.  The fans are cowards and couldn't and wouldn't step into the shoes of those characters.
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