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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 7:57am | IP Logged | 1
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Curious, when reading the Captain America-Baron Blood story, there's a
strong contingent out there that think the Joey Chapman Union Jack and
Kenneth Crichton were meant to be a gay couple (no doubt fueled in part
by the retcon of the Brian Falsworth Union Jack and Roger Aubrey
Destroyer were). Was this intentional on yours and/or Roger Stern's part
or just people reading a subtext into the story not meant to be there?
When re-reading it, I can see where people would get the idea, but I can
also see where it could just be a side-effect of the plot to pass the Union
Jack mantle on to a commoner/every man, making the character even
more in the spirit of Captain America
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132280
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 2
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They were not intended to be Gay.
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 3
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Thanks for the reply. Union Jack was always a favorite from reading the
INVADERS way back, I think it's one of the best all time costumes.
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Eric Lund
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2074
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 4
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I think that contingent thinks anything and EVERYTHING is gay if it involves 2 men
Or as I like to call them "Get a fucking life"ers
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Pat Ditton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2007
Posts: 925
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 5
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I agree, Eric. Out of curiosity, I just went back a read those few issues of CAP. I see nothing more that two guys - one stronger than the other. Does that make them gay ? WTF ?!?!
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 6
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No. But, back when I had a Gay roommate and his support group would
meet occassionally at the apartment, I was struck how often that was how
they'd pair up while talking in smaller groups. One would be weaker and
exhibit more of the stereotypes while the other would come closer to
passing as straight. You also have Jackie's coolness towards Joey which
on the surface reads as her not approving of their friendship because of
the difference in social class, but it could also be an indicater of some
other reason. There's nothing definite in the story but I can see where
someone might wonder if it was a little wink-wink nod-nod on the part of
the creators slipping something in especially at that time period.
On the other hand, I never got how people thought it was obvious that
Thomas was hinting at Union Jack and Dynamite were a couple in THE
INVADERS (he wasn't).
Both cases illustrate the dangers of judging solely based on appearances.
Speculate if you must, but don't confuse speculation with actual fact.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 7
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When I was working on ALPA FLIGHT, I received a letter from someone wanting to know if Shaman was Gay, because of his name, Michael Twoyoungmen. Twoyoungmen was, in fact, the name of the Chief of the Sarcee tribe, at the time I created the character. I would not expect too many people outside Alberta to know that, of course, but jiminy christmas! If I was going to create a Gay character and send out a "signal" to that effect, wouldn't I do it with something more subtle than that? Like, the way I did with Northstar, for instance?
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Corey Morgan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 141
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 8
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And in my opinion, it was far better, the subtle way you did it with Northstar. Not because people didn't want to be bluntly hit over the head with a gay character, but because leaving subtle clues and hints allows the reader to put the pieces together themselves, rather than just having the puzzle handed to them already complete.
-Corey
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 9
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You know what's funny, is that when I reread the stories in the trade paperback about 10 years ago, I too, thought that was the underlying subtext as well. Not sure why...believe me, I'm not one that goes looking for that (I completely missed the boat with Northstar until I read a JB interview years later). Doesn't affect the story regardless (which is one of my favorites...I always wanted to see a JB Union Jack comic, especially after seeing him later in Namor!)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 10
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Another thing that slipped over and persisted from those Captain America stories was that the future Union Jack is an "artist" (which might add to the myth of Rog and I intending him to be Gay, I suppose). Borrowing a reference from "The Rutles", Rog referred to him going to "art school", which would have meant industrial arts, ie, learning to be a welder or a bricklayer. What we in my Art College days used to call "the heavy-duty boys". Want to see small whisps of smoke rise from Roger's ears? Ask him what kind of artist Union Jack is.
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Phil Southern
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 201
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 11
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I wondered the same thing about Union Jack, but missed the boat on Northstar and Pinky Pinkerton altogether. Heck, I missed it on Liberace! I thought he was excessively animated.
Phil
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Michael Connell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 January 2006
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| Posted: 27 September 2007 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| Rog referred to him going to "art school", which would have meant industrial arts, ie, learning to be a welder or a bricklayer. |
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Interesting, I've never heard it referred to as "Industrial Arts" down here that's called a "Trade School".
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