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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 6:26pm | IP Logged | 1  

I have mentioned previously in these parts that, were I in charge of either of the Big Two, my "solution" to the ills of the industry would be to "reset" all the books to where they were at some arbitrarily chosen point in time. Usually I say 1976, for many reasons good and bad. Mostly because that's the last year when, while actually still working in the Biz, I really still felt like a fan.

So -- the premise then, is that as of some date -- say, July 1st, 2008 -- all the books would revert to the conditions they were in back in 1976, but would continue to be portrayed as present day. Peter Parker, f'rinstance, would be an unmarried grad student (tho I would dearly love to put him back in high school!). The X-Men would be a tightly knit group that had only just expanded to include "new" members. Thor would still be Don Blake. Tony Stark would drink no more than socially. But everything would be happening now. Most importantly, this would be done as an editorial fiat, not as a crossover "event".

SO! If you were in charge, and this was your mission, what is the year to which you would rewind Marvel and/or DC? Give elaborate reasons, if you are so inclined, but feel free to simply say "This was when I thought the books were really cool." And, really, if you think everything is fine right now, as is -- don't play. What would be the point?

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Eric Russ
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 6:37pm | IP Logged | 2  

Probably around.1984-1985. Whatever year before Peter Parker married
Mary Jane. It seemed at this point stories were still "tamed" and
even though the X-Men had their share of misc. Mutants they were not
etched into the psyche of the masses as, "They are ALL definitely X-Men."

The basic fundamentals were not so blatantly disregarded as they are
right
now.

Note -

I would like to magically siphon Roger Stern's and Buscema's Avengers
run in
my alternate comics reality. As well as the Simonson, Byrne stories and
Defalco Spider-Man sans PP and MJ marriage.

Edited by Eric Russ on 24 December 2007 at 7:50pm
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José Emilio Amo
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 3  

I wish to rewind Superman, the 90's would never exist for Superman, the worse era for him... his incredible dead, his incredible resurrection, his hairdo, his "new" look, I want to delete it from my mind, all that stuff is a nightmare for me everyday.

I like the Simonson's Thor but I miss Don Blake too...

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Brendan Howard
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 4  

For Marvel, I think I would rewind back to the time Secret Wars happened
and simply have it NOT HAPPEN.
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Larry Lawrence
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:43pm | IP Logged | 5  

1973 or so, cheat if you have to. Keep Wolverine and the new X-Men, Gwen
Stacy is alive and Dick Grayson is still Robin. We're essentially using Kirby's
migration to DC as the transition point.
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Eva Bright
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 6  

1983.
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 7  

For Marvel, I cannot answer this question by merely considering was was going on in a character's life. I've long believed that certain characters "belonged" to a given team and that subsequent teams largely rehashed the classic work of their predecessors.

For Marvel, then, I would say 1967 mostly because of Kirby's FF and Thor. The books were perfect and Kirby was still creating the types of characters that would spin off into other books. By 1968 Jack was already curbing his creativity and started rehashing his own work. In 1967, he was de facto -- if not de jure -- art director and inspired other artists/storytellers to up their game. John Buscema 1965-66 was a pale imitation of Big John 1968, to name just one.

For DC, the pinnacle was 1985-86's crisis. Finallly, FINALLY, all the DC characters I wanted to meet and interact were on the same world. The Golden Age Superman was given an honorable retirement with the love of his life and even gained a superson. The JSA rightly became the predecessor of the JLA.

Best of all, Superman no longer had the responsibility of being DC's first Superhero, but adopted the identity/costume because his dad remembered the mystery men of the 30's and 40's. Even better, Kal-El stopped pining away morbidly for his deadworld which he never really got to know and we were relieved from a profusion of Krypton survivors ... Last Son of Krypton, indeed.

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Joe Smith
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 8  

I'll go back to the time right after the Count Nefaria story in Avengers.

 

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Pat Ditton
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 9  

Tough call -- Marvel would be about 1983 / 84 -- DC would be a tad later, about 1987 / 88.

The worst part here is that great creative talent couldn't be rewound with it - time has taken many greats from us that I would truly miss in a rewind - Mark Gruenwald, Dave Cockrum, John Buscema....and more.


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John Young
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 10  

DC pre-crisis but having Superman in the universe with earth 2 (the silverage earth 1).  Have the Multiverse so you have the JSA with Superman and their children (earth1 but silverage earth 2). And no married Superman.

Marvel would be Peter Parker Just finishing High School, no Hulk mental problems, no secret or civil war junk. Playboy (no-alcoholic)  Tony Stark, and all the gods of Asgard.
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:29pm | IP Logged | 11  

Brendan Howard:  For Marvel, I think I would rewind back to the time Secret Wars happened and simply have it NOT HAPPEN.
__________________________________________________

Any particular reason why?  I ask because Secret Wars, to me, was an introduction to many other characters I'd never paid attention to before.  I bought that series because of Spider-Man and the Hulk, and to a lesser extent, the Fantastic Four.  But I left it with a desire to read more about the Avengers, Iron Man, Thor, and the X-Men.  That series was really what pushed me into being a regular comic book reader.

Myself, I'd want to go back to 1987 before Peter Parker got married and start over there.  Then I'd hope that Todd McFarlane mysteriously disappeared...
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Carmen Bernardo
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 12  

Marvel: I'm with JB, give or take a few X-Men things I liked during the early- to mid-1980s (just have a handful of students with the X-Men, nothing more).

DC: immediate post-Crisis.  Still quite simple, no "World-Shattering Crossover" stuff every year like now.

Series were more self-contained back then.  You didn't have to by successive issues for two years on end just to see a subplot concluded or, instead, punted to the next creative team after an editor decided to derail the whole thing to make room for yet another crossover or just sack the poor slobs who were actually moving forward with it.  You didn't need more than a few small captions saying "So-and-so appeared in #37 of that book" to explain something we call "continuity" these days.  Nobody had to have Wolverine chewing up the scenery in order to sell every damned book.

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Jeff W Williams
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 13  

I've long had a reset story in my head revolving around Secret Wars, so I guess I'll say 1985-ish.  Some books I'd like to see stay as they are now, with no changes, like Captain America for instance.
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Chris Durnell
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 9:36pm | IP Logged | 14  

For me, the magic year is 1983, right before I started collecting comics.  It seemed I had missed so many cool comics - the start of Simonson's Thor, JB's FF and AF.  However, I couldn't pick any one year because the "highlights" of any title usually happened at different points.  Instead, I would pick any time when the status quo of the books were at their best.  Thsi may be some years behind or some years later.

FF - Early part of JB's run before She-Hulk arrived.  I don't mind She-Hulk's inclusion on the team, but I didn't like Alicia being with Johnny so the Thing needs to still be on the team.  All the classic FF is still there along with JB's return of Dr Doom to the throne of Latveria.

Avengers - The two high periods are the Shooter/Perez/Byrne era and the Stern/Buscema era.  Fortunately, neither needs to cancel the other.  The one advantage of the earlier era is that more iconic Avengers (Iron Man, Thor, Wonder Man, Vision, Scarlet Witch) are active.  A good point would the West Coast limited series but with Stern's original idea of two teams of Avengers in one title.  But we can avoid all the problems with Yellowjacket.

Spider-Man - Stern's run again.  Hobgoblin is the successor to the Green Goblin, and Norman Osborn is dead and rotting in the grave.  Aunt May is alive, Peter is in school, and Peter has several potential love interests including, yes, the Black Cat.

Iron Man - I'd combine the two Michelenie/Layton runs and just pretend the whole Denny O'Neil alcholism overkill story just did not happen.  Obadian Stane is simply not that good a villain to tolerate it.  In terms of supporting cast, I'll turn more towards the earlier set (Mrs Arbogast, Vic Martinelli, Artemus Pivens), but can welcome some of the replacements they came up later.  There is just too many cool villains and stories to discount the second run though.

Daredevil - Miller's run.

Thor - Simonson's run.  The minute it was decided by Stan and Jack that Don Blake wasn't a person, but simply a persona it made "Don Blake" irrelevant.  Why not be Thor all the time?

Ghost Rider - Can I pick Johnny Blaze, but keep the feel and mood of Mackie's second run when Danny Ketch was the Rider?  It was so much better than the first series, but Blaze is just too iconic.

Defenders - I never got into this series, so I'll let others pick.  My gut instinct tells me that Dr Strange should be the sponsor and organizer, but that the team is actually others.

X-Men - Right where JB left the series.  The title still had many fun moments left, but too many Jean Grey types bogged down the series - no Maddy Pryor, no Rachel Summers, no resurrection.  We can shoehorn in the Morlocks later which may be the only mythos element still not present by then.

Captain America - I think the JM DeMatteis/Mike Zeck period was very good.  We still had a vibe similar to Stern/Byrne with the same supporting cast, but DeMatteis was having a lot of fun villains.  I would still want to include a lot of great Gruenwald era villains though like the Serpent Society, the Watchdogs, the Skeleton Crew, and Flag-Smasher.

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Thomas Moudry
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | 15  

I would rewind to 1980-81 for both Marvel and DC, primarily because this was when I was enjoying lots of books from both publishers. The X-Men were still recognizable, and there was no Madelyne Pryor or recurring Rachael Summers. The New Teen Titans were still, well, teens. The Avengers were pretty classic at this point, as were the Justice League of America. Dick Grayson was still with Batman on occasion, and Superman was pre-Crisis, but I liked what Marv Wolfman was doing in Action Comics. I also liked where the Legion of Super-Heroes and the Fantastic Four at this point.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 24 December 2007 at 10:25pm | IP Logged | 16  

I'd wind Marvel forward and make the Spider-Girl universe the "real" one.  It works incredibly well...much better than I would have thought.  Mostly because it is fun! The problem with "going back" is soemone is going to want to do "Secret Wars" again or marry Pete & MJ again, etc. etc.
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Scott McKeeve
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 17  

I would go back to the mid 1970s for Marvel. Marvel published really diverse books back then such as "Journey Into Fear" and "Astonishing Tales". Books with stories about Morbius the Living Vampire and It the Living Colossus. There was evidently a lot of living going on in 1974. But, seriously, those books were great fun.

This was also the time of the Avengers/Defenders War, Roy Thomas' Thor, which focused on Thor and the Asgardians as adverturers and warriors, Giant Sized Avengers and Giant Sized Fantastic Four, Luke Cage, the Hulk was still Incredible, and the books all had a tight focus with tight editors. There were WAY less chatacters running around the Marvel Universe and I think that was a good thing. At a certain point, dilution begins to become a factor.

I'm also curious to see how many of us pick times when we were still just kids reading the books. That's probably the biggest appeal of a rewind. A lot of times we all think we'd like to go back in time when what we really want is to just be twelve and see the world that way again.

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John Mietus
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 1:00am | IP Logged | 18  

I can't decide when I'd like to see DC rewound back to -- there are so many things I like about different eras of different books. I'd love to have seen a Denny O'Neill/Neal Adams team-up on the Batman & Robin of the
early '40s, for instance, whereas I loved what Wolfman and Perez did with the New Teen Titans (obviously Robin/Nightwing would be problematic if we go back to the '40s for Batman and Robin); I love both the fun
innocence of the '50s and '60s Weisinger era Superman stuff, but I also love the well-thought-out Man of Steel reboot that pared away all the stuff of that earlier era that didn't make sense.

So I find it difficult to pick just one year for the entire company and say, "Then." I suppose if I had to, I'd say, for DC, go back to 1977, right before the DC Implosion, because I really was enjoying all the DC titles I read
then, right before the collapse.

And for Marvel? I didn't start reading Marvel titles until a buddy of mine decided to stop reading comics and gave me his entire collection. And it just so happened that he began collecting FF right when JB started writing it,
and Thor right when Simonson did the Beta Ray Bill storyline, and the Avengers right at the start of the Shooter/Perez run, and Spider-Man with John Romita Jr.'s first issue of his first stint on the book, and the X-Men with
Cockrum's return right after JB's departure, and Daredevil right as Frank Miller took over the writing chores -- so that's the stuff where my knowledge of the Marvel universe begins. So whatever year that was, that's where
I'd go back and reboot Marvel to. What would that be, '80? '81?

[edited to add] Come to think of it, I was really, really enjoying DC stuff at that time, too -- New Teen Titans, Levitz/Giffin's Legion, Mike Grell on Warlord, Gene Colan and Don Newton doing the art on Batman, Perez on
the JLA as well as the Avengers... so maybe I'd go back to that era for both companies.


Edited by John Mietus on 25 December 2007 at 1:05am
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Ron Chevrier
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 2:30am | IP Logged | 19  

I can't really pinpoint specific years, but just the general time frame in which individual titles hit a high mark, in my opinion.

The JLA would go back to its full membership around issue 200, although I would fudge things a bit so that Martian Manhunter was still part of the group.

The JSA would revert to just prior the JLA/JSA teamup in which Mr. Terrific died. This was the beginning of the end for the group, as the powers that be realized that they could off the better known Earth-2 characters (like Batman) and it would not affect the other regular titles.

The Legion would go back to the Cockrum/Grell era, although I also like much of the Levitz/Giffen era too prior to the death of Karate Kid, so either is fine.

Avengers goes straight back to the Byrne/Perez drawn era.

At least one of the Superman titles would be regularly drawn by Garcia Lopez, although he never really stuck around on them for very long besides doing cover work.

Hawkman continuity reverts back to the Kubert/Murphy Anderson days.

The last original issue of the Doom Patrol never happened, the team never died, Drake and Premiani had a long and successful run that rivaled even Marvel's famous quartet.

Don Newton or Rich Buckler is the regular artist on the Shazam book.

Perez's Wonder Woman is just fine with me.

Aquaman goes back to the Aparo era.

Firestorm Is done by Conway and Broderick.

Frank Miller would be writing and drawing Daredevil as he did 20 or so years ago, back before it amused him to take superheroes down a peg every time he writes them.

Trevor von Eeden would still be drawing Green Arrow.






Edited by Ron Chevrier on 25 December 2007 at 2:35am
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Wayne Purdy
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 3:23am | IP Logged | 20  

I'd  probably go back to about '86.  This was my real introduction to Marvel and remains my favourite era.  Comics were so much fun then.
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John Webb
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 21  

I think the rot really set in, in 1989. If I had to go back it would be no further than that.
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George Edwards
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 5:01am | IP Logged | 22  

Reset Universe

Hm. Challenging, but I’ll give it a shot JB.

The big concept would be to reset the comic book universe by capturing the essence of all ages and offer a linear growth universe like your Generations, but concentrate primarily in the eras that befit the best adventures of favorite characters, tying into the Big Final Conflict. To me, a proposed “Big Two Reset Universe” would be structured by character era, design, and writers/artists/editorial direction. Condense 60 years of thousands of issues, and compact it into 150 issues. Yes, finite. After 150 issues, stop production, end with a bang, reprint as TPB and Absolute hardcovers, and cherish the gem in these nicely packaged compilations with goodies and extras.

 

 

 

THE DC “RESET” BLENDS NEW FRONTIER, JLU, KINGDOM COME AND LEGION ANIMATED. John Byrne is Editor in Chief. Taking a cue from Darwyn Cooke, Darwyn was able to connect the DC Golden Age with Silver Age, interconnect books that were not previously connected because of editorial constraints of their time. Now we know that there was an adventure that connected the Losers to Challengers of the unknown, to Hal Jordan, to the Big 3 heroes, to JLA., add the feel of the 60’s, add The Right Stuff elements, and the feel of adventure of the Future promised by JFK. 5 major ages: Golden Age 40’s, Silver Age 60’s Modern Age 2008, Kingdom Come Era and 30th Century Legion. This would be one ongoing monthly series, written and penciled by John Byrne.

DC Universe- an ongoing series by writer/artist John Byrne. 100 issues.

DC Origins Books #1. A one shot issue for every major character or team. 32 page debut issue. The art is 3D modeled and rendered by the top Alias Maya professionals; art directed Alex Ross to reflect Ross’ layouts, realism, and his ability to be evocative and reverential to the source material. 50 one-shot issues, which each one shot also debuts as 30 minute standalone episode of a 3D animated series on DVD called DC Universe Origins.

Superman- starts his adventure in 1938, Lana being his love interest; meets young Lois hotshot Planet reporter much later in the 60’s, just in time for JLA era storylines for New Frontier. Include movie Fortress, Movie Zod, Ursa, Non, SAS Brainiac, JB/Timm Luthor for modern times, with his green power suit.

Batman- Bruce Timm BAS/ New Frontier Universe

Wonder Woman- Perez Greek Gods Wonder Woman, but include Steve Trevor as an important love interest from 40’s. When he dies from old age, and Lois Lane dies, Diana will end up with Clark as told in Kingdom Come.

New Gods storyline enters DC universe in 2008

DC Universe Crisis story arcs. There will be 5 major Crisis-scale epics within the ongoing comic book: 1) WWII JLU Savage Time, 2) New Frontier Dinosaur Island, creation of  JLA, 3) Cosmic Oddyssey, 4) Kingdom Come, and 5) a Legion era Crisis- ending with a final battle of Superman vs Darkseid and final New Gods story. The Source and Anti-Life conflict will reach its climax. And this Reset Universe has no multiple universes, thank you.

Include an awesome tie in: multi platform John Byrne's DC Universe video game for PS2/3, Xbox,Nintendo, Gameboy, and the much sought after Wii.

 

 

THE MARVEL COMICS “RESET” BLENDS THE 60’S LEE/KIRBY/BUSCEMA/DITKO/COLAN/STERANKO MARVEL UNIVERSE ROSS “MARVELS”, ULTIMATE UNIVERSE, MARVEL ULTIMATE ALLIANCE, AND UNIVERSE X. Same deal. John Byrne is Editor in Chief. Major time eras roughly combine WWII for Cap & Invaders, 50’s Marvel Lost Generation, 2008 Ultimate Universe, Universe X and ends with the Last Galactus Story

Marvel Universe: an ongoing series by writer/artist John Byrne. 100 issues.

Marvel Origins Books #1. A one shot issue for every major character or team. 32 page debut issue. The art is 3D modeled and rendered by the top Alias Maya professionals; art directed Alex Ross to reflect Ross’ layouts, realism, and his ability to be evocative and reverential to the source material. 50 one-shot issues, which each one shot also debuts as 30 minute standalone episode of a 3D animated series on DVD called Marvel Universe Origins.

2008- Ultimate Universe

Peter Parker in still high school, Ditko Spidey

Ultimates: Steve Rogers just thawed from ice

All teams just starting out, X-Men, FF, Avengers

Dr. Strange just beginning his origin story

Miller era DD- origin and fall from grace stroy

Simonson Thor with Donald Blake.

Galactus looks like Marvel Ultimate Alliance Video Game.

Mar-Vell- white and aqua fin-helmet costume, 70’s red/blue costume, and Ultimate costume.

The major conflict will be called the Marvel Wars:

 

WWII Invaders & Eternals vs Axis & Deviants

Lost Generation conflict as seen in the series

Ultimate Alliance conflict,

Universe X,

capped off with The last Galactus Story.

Major Villains: Red Skull, Doom, Loki, Ultron, Thanos, Celestials and Galactus.

Include an awesome tie in: multi platform John Byrne's Marvel Universe video game for PS2/3, Xbox,Nintendo, Gameboy, and the much sought after Wii.

 

As I said, there are no multiple DC universes, or multiple Marvel universes; there is only 1 universe that exists at DC and 1 universe that exists at Marvel. A separate 3D animated series can provide a DC/Marvel Team Up & universe crossover titled DC/Marvel: Crisis Secret Wars, which teams up DC & Marvel heroes against villains in a conflict separate from the comic book series, but victory is needed to provide a favorable ending to the comic books, so this can be both a standalone 3D animated series, and a companion to the comic book.

 

I hope I've offended no one, as it was not my intent. This is just one of the many ideas to provide a reset model.

 

 

Respectfully,



Edited by George Edwards on 25 December 2007 at 5:38am
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David Henriot
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 23  

I feel a little inconfortable with the reseting idea.
It's like if the whole industry was saying : you see, all that you've been collecting, all that you know, all the stories, well, from now they don't exist no more. Never happened.
Hey, what about a refound ?

I know that when we like a character, we want to see more and more of his stories. But when is too much too much ?
I like to watch "24", but each time i have this feeling that i won't even live one of Bauer's hour in my whole life. And then again, when does he sleep ?

That's why i think that the idea is more to launch new teams, new heroes, than keeping the existing ones again and again.
Don't get me wrong, i don't mean that Batman or Spider-man are "too old" or "old fashion" characters. But when you save 12 times earth from complete destruction, or when you put in jail 58 times the same villain, when you died-and-finally-not died 3 times, well, you migth want to jump to something else.
The industry just act as if only what Stan Lee created was working.

Anyway, if i was to reset things, i would want it to happens AFTER J.B.'s F.F. run, and Alpha flight.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 24  

Not altogether surprisingly, some of you seem to be missing (or dodging) the basic "challenge" of this question. And it is a tough one, I grant you.

But, I am not looking for a smorgasbord approach here. Not "one from Column A, two from Column B". We all have bits and pieces that would mix together to make an ideal Marvel or DC. But that's the easy way. I want to see one year picked out. One point at which you think it all mostly fit together.

And, I would have thought was obvious, we do not then proceed from that point to make all the same mistakes. This is the chance to avoid the mistakes. (And probably make new ones!)

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David Henriot
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Posted: 25 December 2007 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 25  

Ah okay, it's a kind of "Back to the future" here, but without the sport almanach.
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