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Topic: What constitutes a swipe? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 1  

he takes the original forms and images and so alters their
context that they become entirely new images.

That's what a real artist does.

*****

I really enjoyed Kirby's cut and pastes in the Fantastic Four and The Mighty Thor.  He was experimenting, expanding the form, bringing an exotic element.  Some of them are incredibly memorable.  But I gotta say, the giant ship he appropriated from 2001: A Space Odyssey and cut and pasted into an outer space background of the Thor Galactus story confused the hell out of my 13 year old brain.  I loved the awesome Thor / Galactus art, but that cut and paste took me out momentarily, wondering what in the heck that ship from earth was doing there!  Probably a case of an homage that would have been more effective had he disguised the iconic ship more and made it a swipe!

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Aric Shapiro
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 2  

I wish we could still see the influence of the greats on many of today's artists.  I'd kill for an artist that was influenced by Marshall Rogers, Alex Toth and Joe Kubert on a Batman title

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 3  


 QUOTE:
Here I do NOT agree.  I liked Todd's art.  I still do.  His art was dynamic and I still like his Spider-Man.  The Image guys can draw.  It is a different style, but they can draw.  Jim Lee is VERY talented;  Larsen is HUGELY talented; Portacio is likewise very good.

I thought that McFarlane's faces seemed to get uglier and uglier as his ASM run progressed.

I also didn't think that Jim Lee's work even came close in X-MEN and WILDCATS to what it was in UXM.


 QUOTE:
Even Rob had his moments

Such as?

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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 4  

Knut, I agree with your definitions. The key word is plagarism, which would be reproducing copyrighted material (tracing, in the case of comics) and passing it off as your own.

Strictly speaking, altering a drawing based on reference a certain degree avoids plagarism. Of course, the amount of change required is open to interpretation.

I don't think artists aping a specific style is swiping, but I do find it a bit sad, when done to the extreme. Shouldn't an artist derrive pride drawing as 'themself', rather than be seen as a 'clone'?

 



Edited by Greg Woronchak on 21 February 2008 at 2:25pm
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Wayne Osborne
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 5  

"Go on, tell me the John Byrne of 1973 didn't love Jack Kirby"

C'mon, Trevor, that's not really the same thing at all. You can't take a
submission issue that was done in the style of Rich Buckler doing Jack
Kirby and compare it to basing your entire career on another artist's
style. Yeah, John loved Jack in '73 - most aspiring comics artists did.
And like a lot of those guys his early work showed his influences. He did
a good Jack Kirby, he did a good Neal Adams and then he went on to be
himself.

I've never read Godland but I don't really mind that the artist is doing
Kirby.   New drawings in an old style - that's okay by me. And if he can
find an audience for it, more power to him. But one page from one issue
does not a whole career make......nor does it make a very valid
comparison in the argument at hand.

best,

WO
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Trevor Giberson
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:49pm | IP Logged | 6  

I agree with you Wayne.  I'm not saying he's remotely in the same league as an artist as John Byrne - he ain't. 

I'm saying that the art in Godland isn't disrespectful of Kirby and that John Byrne is being pretty hard on the guy, especially when he went through similar phases (be it Kirby or Adams or whomever).  Give the guy a break.  Lovin' the King that much ought to be enough common ground for a little bit of respect.


Edited by Trevor Giberson on 21 February 2008 at 2:49pm
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Wayne Osborne
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:53pm | IP Logged | 7  

I understand that and any value judgments we make on Godland or whatever
it may be are subjective. As I said, I don't have a problem with Godland but
obviously JB does. And that's his call to make and his reasons are his own.

I just didn't think that drawing you posted belonged in the argument about
aping an artist's style. That drawing, that issue of FF, was done for very
different reasons than any issue of Godland. That's all I meant.

WO
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 8  

I've read a few issues of Godland. The story is OK if held up against the stuff coming out of Marvel in the 70's. I did not enjoy the art. I can only describe it as "Zombie Kirby" - the art is there but it is missing the great master's soul.
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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 9  


 QUOTE:
My impression is that the decision to draw so close to Kirby was to "legitimize" the twist about the time traveller: kind of like saying, "Wait, wait, you missed this before! It was always written between the lines!" If this is so, it was very neatly done.

I think it just fits since Kang is revealed to be Rama Tut.  It just seems fitting the original sequence should be used.

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Paulo Pereira
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 3:31pm | IP Logged | 10  

Tom Scioli, from a Newsrama interview:

It's hard to explain the appeal of something that you find appealing. The world he depicts in his art is alive. It's 3-d. It moves. No one else's art does for me what Kirby's does. Everything else looks limp and flat by comparison. He found a new way of doing things. I want to follow his lead. I think he found a way of drawing that is the optimal way of drawing for sci-fi comic book epic storytelling. There isn't one aspect of his style that I'd want to ignore. 

Can't say I agree with those comments, as much as I dig Kirby's work.  Also, judging from this page, I don't know if I'd want to see any more of GØDLAND.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 11  

Go on, tell me the John Byrne of 1973 didn't love Jack Kirby.

••

Everybody go take a look HERE for a classic example of getting it wrong. Swipes galore and picking up on all of Kirby's weaknesses, none of his strengths.

In my own defense, I can only say "I got better."

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John Byrne
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Posted: 21 February 2008 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 12  

wonder if I can get an honest opinion from the forum on the example
below…

••

And that's how you do it RIGHT. Same scenes, even the same shots, but
drawn in what was then my own style, not aping Kirby.
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