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Guests Byrne Robotics Visitor
Joined: 01 October 2003 Posts: -11
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| Posted: 21 March 2008 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 1
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Jim Starlin (Jim Starlin?!? Are you guys serious? Classic super-hero writer if there is one!)
I agree with you Pedro ! Starlin's a great creator/artist/writer !
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Thomas Moudry Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3620
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| Posted: 21 March 2008 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 2
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Re: Jeph Loeb. I loved all the limited series I've read from him, i.e., the
Batman stuff, Superman for All Seasons, Catwoman: When in Rome, the
Marvel "color" stuff, etc. I loved his run on Superman/Batman, especially the
first and third arcs, as well as the story he wrote for his son.
But his stint as the regular writer on Superman was just boring.
I've not ventured over to Ultimates 3 because I'm not a "Joe Mad" fan.
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Steve Swanson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 333
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 3
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Grant Morrisson is someone whose work I like but I'm not incredibly enthused about.
Though that can probably be attributed to his fans and Wizard Magazine, he delivers a pretty good story and they all jump up and down like it's the second coming and all I can say is that it was pretty good or even really good.
Seven Soldiers of Victory was really good but essentially it boiled down to big evil guys and we need seven unlikely heroes to save the world. Not sure what was groundbreaking about that.
It's kind of odd but it isn't like Alan Moore fans who can often be really stuck up and snobbish, more like Morrison's fans just have incredible enthusiasm for his work and don't understand why others might not be as enthused.
It's almost like Millar for me, I really enjoy a lot of Millar's work but he comes across in interviews as a bit of a wank and at times it makes me eye his work a little skeptically. Instead of hoping the work is good, or expecting the work to be good I'm thinking the work had better be good to justify his statements.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2716
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 5:40am | IP Logged | 4
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My only real problem with Grant Morrison is that he has some kind of disdain for super heroes, or at least costumes, and apparently feels the need at some point to have characters mention that in the comics he writes.
He's doing a decent job on Batman, but unless they replace him with someone lousy (Man, I hope DC never hires JMS or Paul Jenkins), I won't miss him when he eventually leaves.
*edit* Forgot to mention this, but a few months back, at another board I go to someone was criticising Chris Claremont for being too wordy (and I don't agree, but I can see where they might be coming from) but was verbally fellating Brian Michael Bendis. I'd take someone who uses too much words (as long as its not a pure talking heads comic with no actual action) over someone who takes six issues to do something that could be done in one or two any day.
Edited by Brian Floyd on 22 March 2008 at 5:43am
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4206
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 5
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someone who takes six issues to do something that could be done in one or two any day.
****************
Aren't they all writing for the Trade Paperbacks now? The big panels, the long,drawn out stories. Perhaps they need to flesh the stories out more and still get the story in an issue or two, but still write for the TPB.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10045
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 6:09am | IP Logged | 6
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I've found Geoff Johns to be disappointing recently. For me, his "Sinestro Wars" bloated and maudlin. He's let DC's crossovers derail his Teen Titans and JSA. It's great that he's a team player, but it's making his stories unenjoyable.
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Pedro Bouça Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 1174
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 7:17am | IP Logged | 7
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Oh, you can add Paul Jenkins to the "guys who have written at least ONE story i did like, but usually do stuff I don't" list. He is one of the worst current writers out there, but almost looked good when I compared his Spider-Man with Stravesty's!
And I remembered another who is a total loss, Frank Tieri. He really just got the job because he was Quesada's pal...
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David Kingsley Kingsley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 18 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 947
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 8
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"David, don't want to dispute tastes but can you explain why you liked it? I'm trying to get an idea of its appeal."
**********
Paulo, I can try to explain why I liked the Other, but I must, first, admit that there were many, many parts of it that didn't work for me. I can agree with the poster that said the May and MJ in Iron Man armor was silly. I'll add that JMS ressurecting his villain, Morlun, without detailing how in the hell the villain returned to life is lazy writing. But I do think that Spider-Man believing that he is dying makes for comeplling storytelling.
And the scenes that had to do with Peter and MJ's marriage were some of the best moments that the character has, in my opinion EVER had. The fact that these quiet moments were interspersed in a adequately (at best) plotted crossover, I think, makes people neglect or ignore them. But the issues where the Avengers sneak Mary Jane into the hospital so that she can say her goodbyes to Peter, the sequence where Peter takes his wedding ring back, and a few of the other character driven moments that all three writers (even Hudlin) wrote, I thought, made up for everything that had preceded it. The action centerpiece of the crossver, the infamous eyeball-eating battle between Spider-Man and Morlun, was also probably the best fight scene of 2005.
Edited by David Kingsley Kingsley on 22 March 2008 at 9:09am
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9613
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 9
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With a rare exception or two... Bendis, Ellis, Loeb, Millar, Moore, Morrison, Straczynski, and Winick
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Michael Edwards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 295
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Grant Morrisson is someone whose work I like but I'm not incredibly enthused about.
Though that can probably be attributed to his fans and Wizard Magazine, he delivers a pretty good story and they all jump up and down like it's the second coming and all I can say is that it was pretty good or even really good.
Seven Soldiers of Victory was really good but essentially it boiled down to big evil guys and we need seven unlikely heroes to save the world. Not sure what was groundbreaking about that.
It's kind of odd but it isn't like Alan Moore fans who can often be really stuck up and snobbish, more like Morrison's fans just have incredible enthusiasm for his work and don't understand why others might not be as enthused.
It's almost like Millar for me, I really enjoy a lot of Millar's work but he comes across in interviews as a bit of a wank and at times it makes me eye his work a little skeptically. Instead of hoping the work is good, or expecting the work to be good I'm thinking the work had better be good to justify his statements.
----
If I recall correctly Morrison does hate Super Heroes almost as much if not more than Alan Moore and Garth Ennis do. What irks me so much about him and especially his fan-base is that they swear up and down that Morrison has done the characters justice and kept them in character where every writer has failed before. Which, if you closely scrutinize Morrison's work none of the characters act like they did previously to his involvement. What is even worse is Morrison's fans claim that JB is the first and only deconstructionist that destroys characters and franchises when Morrison is the one who goes around causing such destruction. He's already ruined Batman and made him into a joke. Now, Idioto is letting him be in charge of Final Crisis so he can damage and perhaps destroy the DC Universe permanently.
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Darrell Hempel Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 March 2008 Location: United States Posts: 346
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 11
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" . . . claim that JB is the first and only deconstructionist that destroys characters and franchises . . ."
Say WHAT?!
Seriously - that's one I hadn't heard. I am literally shaking my head right now thinking about how ridiculous that statement is.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12409
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 12
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Thanks David. I guess that displays one perspective of its appeal.
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Gerry Turnbull Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 8795
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 13
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Michael, you wrote, "if i recall correctly Morrison does hate superheroes "
if you recall what correctly?
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Gerry Turnbull Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 8795
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:31am | IP Logged | 14
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Paulo you wrote " want to say Grant Morrison, Mark Millar (and others) but I haven't read enough of their work, nor am I likely to do so. . . Oh yeah, I want to say Bendis too but I haven't really read anything of his either."
why, or how can you not get a writer when you havent read any of their stuff?
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6538
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 15
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If I recall correctly Morrison does hate Super Heroes almost as much if not
more than Alan Moore and Garth Ennis do.
---
I've never had that impression. It's seems to be quite the opposite. He seems
overly in love with Silver Age DC, especially the Gardner Fox Justice League,
the Weisinger Superman, and the 50's era Batman. People may not like what
he does with the characters, but I wouldn't attribute that to Morrison's
hatred of them. He just has weird ideas.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12409
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 16
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QUOTE:
| why, or how can you not get a writer when you havent read any of their stuff? |
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Based on what I've heard and the small sample (smaller, in case of Morrison) I've read of these authors. That's why I say "I want to say" instead of actually saying it. In other words, I'm withholding assessment of them.
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 343
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 17
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<<What irks me so much about him and especially his fan-base is that they swear up and down that Morrison has done the characters justice and kept them in character where every writer has failed before. Which, if you closely scrutinize Morrison's work none of the characters act like they did previously to his involvement. >>
This I mostly experienced with X Men. Endless back and forth of these people are acting in character versus they are not. But characterization can be subjective as well. We all don't see them the same way.
From what I've read, I agree with Michael. My impression is that he loves Silver Age DC. Much as I disliked his X Men, I didn't attribute it to a hatred of superheroes.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12409
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 18
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Morrison might not hate superheroes but he has hinted at hating or being embarrassed by their costumes. He also suggested making X-MEN a sci-fi book as opposed to a superhero book.
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 343
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 19
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I do agree that he seemed not to like the costumes, at least with the X Men. I don't think he should have channeled those feelings through Logan, either. Not considering Logan's history of wearing one. But he's also written plenty of other characters and kept them in the costumes.
Believe me, I am not here to defend Grant Morrison. I think his Superman book is pretty good, but he's not going to do anything to make up for the bad taste his X Men left in my mouth.
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Troy Nunis Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4008
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| Posted: 22 March 2008 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 20
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I have taken to describing Morrison's so called "love" of Silver Age Superheroes as being akin to the love a juvenile delinquent has for the fly he pulls the wings off of. He finds them perposterious things for him to play with, nothing to respect or revere.
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Avi Bastermagian Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 27
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| Posted: 23 March 2008 at 2:41am | IP Logged | 21
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Grant Morrison does not hate superheroes or superhero costumes.. he celebrates them in his work. The first story arc in JLA is one of the best stories the iconic 'magnificent seven' team has ever had, his X-Men streamlined a rambling convoluted plot lines into a coherent book that was true to its core concept and his All Star Superman is a refreshing post modern take on silver age paradigms. The only problem I have with Morrison is that often times his stories start strong but meander due to an influx of too many ideas. I tell you, when the problem is that the writer is being too inventive.. well, that's a problem I don't mind having.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2716
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| Posted: 23 March 2008 at 2:51am | IP Logged | 22
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Grant Morrison does not hate superheroes or superhero costumes.. he celebrates them in his work.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bullshit. In almost every run he's done on a superhero comic, he eventually has characters disparage the idea of wearing costumes or make some smart aleck remark about them. a. Why would he do that if he liked superheroes? b. Why would some of the characters he has had do that, when they've worn costumes for years? (The incident involving Beast and someone else I can't remember at the moment during his X-Men run comes to mind)
When he eventually gets around to having Alfred or Batman or Robin make a remark about costumes like that, I hope Morrison gets yanked off the book soon after.
I haven't read any of his JLA run at all, but I've seen several pages from it and All-Star Superman, and I didn't care for his run on X-Men - Frank Quitely's awful artwork aside.
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Troy Nunis Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4008
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| Posted: 23 March 2008 at 4:29am | IP Logged | 23
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>>The first story arc in JLA is one of the best stories the iconic 'magnificent seven' team has ever had<<
The First story arc in JLA is One of the best stories the iconic Fantastic Four ever had, which Morrison appropriated to tell a story where all the superheroes get beaten down and the one non-powered character saves the day.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2716
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| Posted: 23 March 2008 at 4:38am | IP Logged | 24
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>>The first story arc in JLA is one of the best stories the iconic 'magnificent seven' team has ever had<<
The First story arc in JLA is One of the best stories the iconic Fantastic Four ever had, which Morrison appropriated to tell a story where all the superheroes get beaten down and the one non-powered character saves the day.
++++++++++++++++++++
Please tell me he didn't rip off "And The Blind Shall Lead Them"?!
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Michael Edwards Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 February 2008 Location: United States Posts: 295
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| Posted: 23 March 2008 at 5:38am | IP Logged | 25
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Gerry I recall from everything I have read of Morrison which includes not only his work, but his interviews that he down right hates super heroes. Its like he this detached interest in them -- a case of bad salesman syndrome. Where he doesn't care for the product, but he still tries to sell it anyways. When he spoke of compressing Batman's history into 15 years (which still wouldn't make any sense at all.) and slammed Frank Miller for supposedly ruining Batman -- his comments came off as dry and lacking any passion behind them. I think he was just saying all that crap because a lot of Silver Age fans didn't like what Miller did and a lot of them wish for a return of the older style of stories. Which I think the Silver Age fans are nuts because Frank was taking Batman back to his roots and removing the horrid 60's campiness from the comics. Batman doesn't belong in the sci-fi genre IMHO. He's a pulp hero like Daredevil, Sherlock Holmes, etc,.
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