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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 66063
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 1
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At this point I am not actually certain which ship, canonically, can be the
third Constitution Class vessel to appear in CREW. I have to figure out which
ships from the TOS time period are "available".
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10000
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 2
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We know the Repulic and the Farragut were operative sometime during
Spock's 13-year tour under Pike, since Kirk was on both ships. One could
extrapolate that they were contemporaries of the Enterprise in that sense.
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Was it established in classic series which registry number is accurate for the Farragut?
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 66063
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 4
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The STAR TREK ENCYCLOPEDIA lists the following:
USS Constitution NCC-1700
USS Enterprise NCC-1701
USS Hood NCC-1703
USS Lexington NCC-1709
USS Yorktown NCC-1717
USS Defiant NCC-1764
and those with problematical registration numbers…
USS Eagle NCC-956
USS Constellation NCC-1017
USS Republic NCC-1371
USS Potemkin NCC-1657
USS Excaliber NCC-1664
USS Exeter NCC-1672
USS Essex NCC-1697
USS Intrepid NCC-1831
USS Endeavor NCC-1895
Technically, the Defiant's registry might also represent a bit of a
problem, if the numbers are taken to be sequential. If the Enterprise
was about 20 years old when we saw her first on TOS (based on current
"official" dating), Star Fleet would have had to crank out sixty three ships (of
all classes, presumably) in quite a bit less than those 20 years. Perhaps not
as difficult as it sounds, tho it still seems to me that it would take a while to
build a Constitution Class ship, even with 22nd/23rd Century technology.
Those others, with the much lower numbers than the Constitution
open a real can of Regulan bloodworms.
Anyway, as it stands right now, the Yorktown seems like my most likely
choice, since we know she survived TOS and was even "refitted" a la the
Enterprise. The Yorktown is seen as an operating ship in THE
VOYAGE HOME, set long after the period of CREW.
(Note that the Farragut is not listed as Constitution Class.)
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 1:12pm | IP Logged | 5
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The Yorktown is a recon and was never established in Star Trek IV I thought.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 66063
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 6
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I have not checked the movie, but according the the ENCYCLOPEDIA it is the
Yorktown whose Captain reports attempting to deploy a makeshift solar
sail after the Probe shuts down power on the ship.
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Tim Cousar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 744
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 7
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Was that not the Saratoga?
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2483
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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Saratoga was the Reliant-class ship we saw at the beginning of the movie encountering the probe for the first time.
Admiral Cartwright's sitrep to the Federation President has him calling up the Yorktown's report to Starfleet, in which that ship's captain mentions the solar sail attempt (as well as the amount of time that has past since crossing paths with the probe).
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 6:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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True. I'm not sure if the Yorktown was established as being renamed as the Enterprise in the film or after the films release. Star Trek V gives a different impression the 1701-A was a new ship with shakedown operations at hand. 1701-A is a new star fleet vessel not a refit star ship.
Edited by Sam Karns on 22 November 2008 at 6:19pm
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Tim Cousar Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 744
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Ah, so the Yorktown was the one commanded by Vijay Amritraj.
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2483
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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Was it established in classic series which registry number is accurate for the Farragut?
++++
I know the previous DC Comics Trek adapations are not considered canon, but the "Debt of Honor" graphic novel revealed the USS Farragut to be a Constitution class ship with the registry NCC-1702.
Edited to remove unnecessary "Debt of Honor" info.
Uh, just checked my Star Trek Encyclopedia (1999 ed)... The individual entry for USS Farragut is catagorizing her as a Constitution-Class with registry NCC-1647... Well, that opens up the forementioned can of blood worms.
Edited by Bill Mimbu on 22 November 2008 at 10:52pm
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7103
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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We know the Repulic and the Farragut were operative sometime during Spock's 13-year tour under Pike, since Kirk was on both ships. One could extrapolate that they were contemporaries of the Enterprise in that sense. +++++++++++
Although their classes were never stated, this seems reasonable.
As for Constellation, some fans have justified the lower registry number by saying that she was an older-class ship that was heavily upgraded to Constitution specs.
Exeter and Defiant could also have been contemporaries.
It's important to keep in mind that the registry numbers currently in vogue (which were never seen on-screen, mind you, save for Constellation--and the mention of Republic's) come from Greg Jein's fan essay from 1975.
http://www.trekplace.com/article10.html
The actual numbers come from the wall chart in "Court Martial". Jein just matched them up with the known Constitution-class ships. The numbers weren't really adopted by the fanbase as belonging to those ships until the publication of the Encyclopedia in 1993.
Prior to all of that, Franz Joseph's numbers (which had much more logical/sequential NCC-17** registries for the Constitution-class ships) were used for novels, reference books, and role-playing games.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 22 November 2008 at 11:26pm
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7103
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:30pm | IP Logged | 13
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Anyway, as it stands right now, the Yorktown seems like my most likely choice, since we know she survived TOS and was even "refitted" a la the Enterprise. The Yorktown is seen as an operating ship in THE VOYAGE HOME, set long after the period of CREW. +++++++++
Yorktown was also the original name for Star Trek's ship, so that seems appropriate.
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2483
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| Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | 14
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^^ Fascinating reading Greg, thanks for the link!
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 23 November 2008 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 15
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Greg, The Enterprise A was classified as a NEW star ship not a refit. So the speculation of the Yorktown being renamed Enterprise is total speculation. The Yorktown could have remained in active duty after Star Trek IV.
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Al Cook Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 11212
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| Posted: 23 November 2008 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 16
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I think Greg was referring to names Roddenberry had in mind for the ship
back when he was still dreaming all this stuff up in the first place...
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7103
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| Posted: 23 November 2008 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 17
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Correct, Al.
As for the Enterprise-A, Roddenberry suggested that it be a renamed Yorktown in honor of the fact that Yorktown was the name used in his original outline.
However, the only on-screen evidence to suggest that the ship was not newly-built was its surprisingly early retirement in Star Trek VI.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 23 November 2008 at 12:23pm
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Jay Famous Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 30 November 2007 Location: United States Posts: 593
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| Posted: 23 November 2008 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 18
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I figured I'd post this question here rather than dedicating an entirely new thread to it:
JB: I know that you are happy to be working on STAR TREK and satisfied with what you've produced so far, as well as with how well it's generally been received. I was curious, given your longstanding appreciation of the property, as well as the influence it has had on your other work, if working in the STAR TREK universe represents a long sought-after "dream gig" for you. Is this something you've always wanted to do, and how high up the list of projects that you've worked on does STAR TREK rank? How happy is that kid in a candy store compared to working on other pre-existing properties that you've had an affection for, like FANTASTIC FOUR?
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 25 November 2008 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 19
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However, the only on-screen evidence to suggest that the ship was not newly-built was its surprisingly early retirement in Star Trek VI.
***
Not if Star Fleet decided all Constitution vessels to be decommissioned to bring forth more state of the art Star Fleet vessels like Excelsior, Reliant, and Oberth class vessels. Also the Enterprise could have been used as a vessel for interstellar travels for trainees.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 66063
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| Posted: 26 November 2008 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 20
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As for Constellation, some fans have justified the lower registry
number by saying that she was an older-class ship that was heavily
upgraded to Constitution specs.
••
Another solution, suggested by a friend (Hi, Paul!), is that the registration
numbers of previous ships with the same name are carried over to new
ships, whatever their class. Thus, if there was an earlier Constellation,
the new ship would pick up the older registration number.
This would also explain why the renamed Yorktown would become
NCC-1701-A, since only a brand new ship (of whatever Class) would
continue the unalphabetized designation.
Of course, having all the subsequent Enterprises be similarly
alphabetized somewhat derails this idea. For the sake of CREW, however, I
will, on the few occasions when such references are needed, rely on the
more logically numerical sequencing. My story, after all, takes place before
the first episode of TOS. Thus, the Enterprise is NCC-1701 as the
second ship of the new Class.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7103
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| Posted: 26 November 2008 at 10:17am | IP Logged | 21
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Another solution, suggested by a friend (Hi, Paul!), is that the registration numbers of previous ships with the same name are carried over to new ships, whatever their class. Thus, if there was an earlier Constellation, the new ship would pick up the older registration number.
++++++++
Makes sense.
If NX-01 had been renumbered NCC-01, then we'd wonder why Kirk's ship was designated NCC-1701...a tidbit which indicates that Enterprise got wiped from history somehow.
Jefferies' original idea for the "NCC-1701-A" number was that it would be applied to the first major modernization/upgrade of Kirk's ship (although the idea wasn't used in ST: TMP, but the number later appeared on a brand new Enterprise in ST IV).
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7103
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| Posted: 26 November 2008 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 22
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For the sake of CREW, however, I will, on the few occasions when such references are needed, rely on the more logically numerical sequencing. My story, after all, takes place before the first episode of TOS. Thus, the Enterprise is NCC-1701 as the second ship of the new Class.
++++++++
As it should be, I think!
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5846
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| Posted: 26 November 2008 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 23
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Guys, isn't it fun to talk about STAR TREK?
JJ's film is going to kill the experience for the teenyboppers because it will be just another summer romp like Transformers. Brainless entertainment courtesy of Paramount Pictures!
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Scott Hileman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 112
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| Posted: 28 November 2008 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 24
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JB, I was curious if in a future issue of CREW that you show the adventures of Kyle, Leslie, Lemli, DeSalle, Charlene Masters, and other background characters from the TOS?
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 4942
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| Posted: 28 November 2008 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 25
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I refer to conversations such as this as "the zone" where discussion of one thing skips to something related and so on usually because someone says "but I thought that was..."
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