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Topic: Wolverine’s claw sheathing. (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 08 March 2009 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 1  

Hi friends,

I imagine that this general topic has been discussed before, but I have been wondering (after seeing the trailer for the wolverine origins mess) what exactly is the deal with his claws?

I always assumed that they sort of popped out of the back of his hand above the knuckles. I also assumed that they were installed by Weapon X, though I gather that there has been a change in that and the bone claw foolishness currently prevails.
Anyway, I never really gave it much thought, but have people like JB or other trustworthy Wolvering artists/ creators ever explained how the claws work? Specifically, how they sit when they are not in use?

Apologies if this is obvious somehow.

Thanks!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 08 March 2009 at 9:07pm | IP Logged | 2  

My assumption was/is that they withdraw into his forearm, which is what I
drew on the "flayed" Wolverine in "Days of Future Past".
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 08 March 2009 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | 3  

Something that came along later (and seems obvious after you think about it) is that the holes in Wolverine's hands where the claws come out close up shortly after the claws are sheathed, thanks to his healing factor, and every time that he "pops" them, he's tearing open the skin that closed up the holes all over again, His healing factor closes the wound around the claws quickly, but it still hurts like a bitch every time he does it. Makes him even tougher, no?

I could be wrong, but the first time that was apparently revealed was when Wolverine and Rogue lost their powers in Genosha, and the first time he "popped" his claws, he immediately started bleeding all over his hands, with no healing factor to close up the wounds again.
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Daniel Gillotte
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Posted: 08 March 2009 at 11:41pm | IP Logged | 4  

Thanks JB.

It's strange. As I looked through a bunch of images researching this prior to leaving the question, I am surprised at how many current (or somewhat current) images of  Wolverine seem to have even the way that the claws come out of the hand represented improperly. (The movie, too seems to be making this a worse issue. Maybe the comics are following the bad lead of the movies?)

Anyway, a bunch of versions are out there with the blades seemingly coming out of his hands where his fingers meet the knuckles or some such weirdness.It distresses me. Probably more than it should!
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Chris Back
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 12:23am | IP Logged | 5  

I wonder what keeps his tendons from popping in two when he tries to cut something incredibly tough?  Seems like Colossus throwing you at a Sentinel might sprain a joint! 

As original as Wolverine was/is....I prefer the guy who could get really messed up and take a while to heal. 
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Greg Cordier
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 12:40am | IP Logged | 6  

I would like to strangle the person who decided he could regenerate from a single drop of blood.  From "suspension of disbelief" to "I am the writer this week and this is how I say it goes."
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Taavi Suhonen
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 2:01am | IP Logged | 7  

The story in which Wolverine regenerates from a single drop of blood involves a magical crystal. He's not supposed to be able to do it normally.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 5:20am | IP Logged | 8  

He's not "supposed" to be anything more than an 18 year old with retractable
claws mounted in his gloves -- at least, if what the guys who created
the character had in mind counts for anything.

Wolverine is a classic example of what I have dubbed "Madonna Syndrome"
(for the singer, not JC's mom) -- a scenario in which you have to keep
upping the ante in order to maintain your "rep". Chris and Dave introduced
the "healing factor" and the idea that the claws were part of him, and in the
first issue I drew he go punched literally into orbit, something from which it
was indicated it would take him quite a while to recover. When I was
working on the book, in fact, Chris and I took it that the "healing factor"
was his mutation, and was what allowed his skeleton to be completely
replaced with adamantium. Later foolishness (some forced upon the
character by Shooter in one of his "realistic" spells) gave him a skeleton
"laced" with adamantium, and a "healing factor" for all mutants.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 5:45am | IP Logged | 9  

JB, did you like the abandoned High Evolutionary-aspect of Wolverine's origin?

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Ed Deans
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 10  

With what happened with the character in ensuing years, it's a shame this
was not "in continuity" rather than an alternate future (from Uncanny X-
Men 142):




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William McCormick
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 6:37am | IP Logged | 11  

I could be wrong, but the first time that was apparently revealed was when Wolverine and Rogue lost their powers in Genosha, and the first time he "popped" his claws, he immediately started bleeding all over his hands, with no healing factor to close up the wounds again.

***********

If he lost his powers, wouldn't that have included having claws at all?

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 12  

JB, did you like the abandoned High Evolutionary-aspect of Wolverine's
origin?



Yes.

(For those unfamiliar, Chris and Dave kicked around the idea of revealing
that Wolverine was not a mutant at all, but one of the High Evolutionary's
Ani-Men. This is what they were hinting at when the Sentinels got confused
readings on him. They had to drop the idea when Archie Goodwin, not
knowing what they had in mind, "beat them to it" in his origin for Spider-
Woman.)
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 13  

I could be wrong, but the first time that was apparently revealed was when
Wolverine and Rogue lost their powers in Genosha, and the first time he
"popped" his claws, he immediately started bleeding all over his hands, with
no healing factor to close up the wounds again.

***********

If he lost his powers, wouldn't that have included having claws at all?



Don't confuse powers and mutations. Altho they are usually one and the
same, there can be some gray areas. If we accept the ludicrous idea that
Wolverine's claws are part of his mutation, "taking away his powers" would
not make the claws disappear -- not unless there was something far more
extensive going on than was suggested by that story.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 14  

With what happened with the character in ensuing years, it's a shame this
was not "in continuity" rather than an alternate future (from Uncanny X-
Men 142)



Keep in mind that that was never intended to be an "alternate future", but
rather a future that the X-Men successfully prevented from happening.
Chris fucking that up is one of the many reasons I quit the book.

Even if it is an "alternate future", in any case, that should not have any effect
on what we saw of Wolverine's skeleton in that shot. The whole point of an
"alternate" is that it begins at some place in common with the "real" timeline
-- in the case of "Days of Future Past" the commonality being everything
that led up to the assassination of Senator Kelly.
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 7:19am | IP Logged | 15  

"If he lost his powers, wouldn't that have included having claws at all?"

What JB said, but also bear in mind that the story I mentioned took place before all of the "bone claw" nonsense, anyway. That would be like having Spider-Man's web-shooters fail upon his losing his powers (ignoring the movies, of course).
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Tshombe K. Hamilton
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 16  

In the Art of JB it is mentioned the Canandian gov't replaced his bones with the adamantium skeleton and installed RAZOR SHARP claws. Then along the way i got changed to his skeleton being laced with installed claws. Then the bone claw saga came. If you take bone claws and coat them in admantium they are not going to be razor sharp.  But you are absolutely correct with the comment on uppping the ante to keep Logan's rep. and I thik it has more to do with lazy/unskilled writers who put Logan in situations he really should not be in. Then they pass it off as his healing factor. 
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William McCormick
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 17  

I'm so glad I don't read Marvel anymore. I just read somewhere that Norman Osborn is now the most powerful man in the whole MU.  He's accepted by the general public because after Secret Invasion he's the only one they feel can protect them from the Skrulls. Any truth to this?

 

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Thad Studebaker
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 18  

It's true.  Osborn killed a Skrull on live TV for the world to see, so he was hailed as the hero of the war.  He took Tony Stark's place as head of SHIELD then dismantled it to build a new organization, HAMMER. (Just in case there are those who don't want it all spoiled.)

Edited by Thad Studebaker on 09 March 2009 at 8:03am
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 19  

JB wrote:
Don't confuse powers and mutations. Altho they are usually one and the
same, there can be some gray areas. If we accept the ludicrous idea that
Wolverine's claws are part of his mutation, "taking away his powers" would
not make the claws disappear -- not unless there was something far more
extensive going on than was suggested by that story.



An excellent point. If Cyclops and Angel both had their mutation suppressed, we might assume that Cyclops could no longer generate his optic blasts, but we would not expect Angel's wings to fall off or even atrophy. Similarly, Storm might lose her ability to affect weather, but Nightcrawler's appearance shouldn't change. A "loss of power" for Angel would have to involve loss of control of his wings, rather than the physical loss of his wings, since his entire body has been genetically modified to permit him to fly. Removing his mutation would probably kill him.

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William McCormick
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:12am | IP Logged | 20  

Wow, just wow, Thad.
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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 21  

William, the Norman Osborn stuff really isn't so bad - it's actually pretty interesting. He's still the same ol' scummy Green Goblin we know and hate. He's just got a lot of powerful people in government (and the general public) duped into thinking he's one of the good guys. In many ways, this makes him more dangerous than ever.

It's not some major shift for the character. It's just a case of a villain being cunning and sneaky. But the heroes (and the readers) know the real score.

(And to prevent this from being a total thread drift, Wolverine should always have adamantium claws, never bone claws. And his healing factor shouldn't be overemphasized. He's tough, but he can be hurt.)



Edited by Bruce Buchanan on 09 March 2009 at 8:27am
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Donald Miller
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 22  

It's not some major shift for the character.

Except that he died in Amazing Spider-Man #122.  I think the new guys a Skrull.

D-
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:40am | IP Logged | 23  

William, the Norman Osborn stuff really isn't so bad - it's actually pretty
interesting.



Replace "actually" with "something I find". You're not stating fact, you're
expressing an opinion.


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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 24  

Except that he died in Amazing Spider-Man #122.  I think the new guys a Skrull.

***********

Well, yeah. I wish he had stayed dead. Bringing Norman Osborn back definitely undercut Amazing Spider-Man #122 (probably my favorite Spider-Man issue ever).

But that was a decision made 12 or so years ago. Norman's back and he's going to be featured prominently. I'm merely suggesting that casting him as a master manipulator fits in with what we know about the character.

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William McCormick
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Posted: 09 March 2009 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 25  

He's just got a lot of powerful people in government (and the general public) duped into thinking he's one of the good guys.

**********

Doesn't the general public know he was the Green Goblin?

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