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Topic: Flash: Rebirth #1 - I’m Done (Spoilers) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Derek Wilczynski
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 1  

I almost posted this in the Flash thread, but couldn't figure out how to "spoiler" tag the title of the thread.  Now, keep in mind that the Flash (all incarnations) has always been my favorite super hero(es) and I generally like Geoff Johns.  But, really, having Barry Allen's father kill his mother as the "traumatic" event of Barry's childhood?  Why? 

Enough.  No more characters who have to be motivated by tragedy.  Johns has taken away something special about Barry (he was a normal guy) and turned him into a "modern" angst propelled super "hero."  No more.  Now everyone has some dark "factor" in their past.  What's next - Clark Kent molested as a boy?  Ray Palmer accidentally pushing a childhood friend off of a jungle gym and killing him?  Hal Jordan's father dying because . .  oh, wait, nevermind.

Screw Johns.  I'm sick of this crap.  No more.  Let's just have heroes be heroes.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 2  

What the happened to Geoff Johns? There was a time when he seemed to know what he was doing!
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 3  

I know the feeling. I've been avoiding Green Lantern since Johns took it
on. For reasons unclear to me, he's a fan favorite writer and is so because he supposedly writes 'fun' books. But, man, everything he
writes is so damn violent, endless on-camera carnage for no point other
than carnage itself. Which is fine on a book like 'The Boys,' where it's
the point, but not on an all ages title. He's doing it to the Legion now,
as well, and I'm wondering if he's just going to keep dragging down all
of my favorite titles.

I actually gave up buying DC titles for a year since I was so dispirited by
the huge violent (and poorly planned) mess that was 'Infinite Crisis,'
especially the deeply, deeply cynical FU to fans and the Siegel family of
making Superboy a dimwitted, psychopathic mass-murderer.

I know people give 'Final Crisis' and Grant Morrison a lot of (sometimes
more than justified) crap for being poorly constructed and just plain
confused, but it was a masterpiece, compared to IC.
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Rick Whiting
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 4  

I have to agree with everything you guys said about Johns. Don't get me wrong, I think Johns is a good writer, but a lot of the comics he has written over the last several years have become more violent,have more cussing,and have more on camera implied sex (that issue of Avengers and that Teen Titans annual he co-wrote with Marv Wolfman where Superboy and Wonder Girl took each other's virginity are two examples of this).
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Derek Wilczynski
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 5  

What the happened to Geoff Johns? There was a time when he seemed to know what he was doing!

It's funny.  The story reads well.  The dialouge is good, the pacing is good, the subplots are good.  Johns seems to have two problems (massive violence and pop psychology).  They're huge problems, to be sure, but what is truely maddening is just how close he is to being really good.

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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 6  

My favorite Flash stories are Geoff Johns. Though I have problems with his recent stuff, I'm still very appreciative for what he did with Wally West and the first five years of JSA. 
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Jonas Vesterlund
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 7  

So now Barry Allen had a traumatic childhood. What the heck....please....

I cannot help but wonder how much is Geoff Johns and how much of this is the DC Comics higher ups? What do you guys think??

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Kevin Sharp
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 8  

The story reads well.  The dialouge is good, the pacing is good, the subplots are good.

****

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

The flashback to Barry's childhood shows his mother dead (or at least grievously wounded) and his father taken away in handcuffs.  We don't see him murder her -- we don't even know if the dad is responsible!  I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to see where Johns goes with it, before condemning him outright.

And though I don't bow at the GJ altar, thanks to him I've been enjoying GL for the first time since the Englehart/Staton years.


 


Edited by Kevin Sharp on 09 April 2009 at 9:13am
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Michael Hatton
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 9  

If all of a sudden you had the power to move super fast, your ife has gotten suddenly very interesting.  You do not need any angst to spice it up.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 10  

Geoff Johns is one my favorite comic book writers and is one of the few current writers who seem to "get" superheroes. That being said, he does have a tendency to throw in violent scenes.
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Paul Anthony Llossas
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 11  

I get the feeling that Barry's mother's murder is the catalyst for his interest in forensic investigation.  I just don't understand why after all this time we need an explanation for that, unless its for the benefit of those readers who have no inkling who Barry Allen is.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:52am | IP Logged | 12  

Something I noticed when working on GENERATIONS 3 -- I jumped 100
years between each chapter, and with each issue would get comments from
readers who didn't "get" what was happening. "These two characters were
not married last issue! Now they are! What happened?!?"

Unfortunately, I think this kind of response has been "trained" into a lot of
readers by a couple of decades worth of writers who feel compelled to
unearth and analyze every single aspect of a character's life. In this case, for
instance, we might assume that Johns is not content to allow Barry to
become a police scientist because it's something that interests him, but
instead has to have a "catalyst" to push him in that direction.

One gets the impression these stories are being written for an audience that
does not understand the word "active" (or it's modern and redundant cousin
"proactive"), and can function only on a reactive level.
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Kevin Brown
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 13  

What the happened to Geoff Johns? There was a time when he seemed to know what he was doing!

*******************

He started believing his own hype.

Before GL: Rebirth came out, you could sit with the guy and talk about comics.  Even as busy as he was, he'd carve out time after the con to just be "one of the guys".  Have a drink at the bar, be amongst friends.

Not any more.

When you keep hearing how "awesome" you are, you forget where came from and your head gets way too big.

And now it shows in his writing.

Instead of trying to do a damn good job, he tries to "one up himself" with the next story.  Nothing is simple any more.  It's now a decade long trilogy of trilogies!!!

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 14  

When you keep hearing how "awesome" you are, you forget where came
from and your head gets way too big.



I have a rep for having a huge ego, but it's not really true. And the
reason it's not is that, in the early days, the same fans who would
praise me as the Greatest Comicbook Artist in History would react with
pantomimed vomiting when I said my favorites were people like Jack
Kirby, Joe Kubert, Steve Ditko.

Yeah, back then it was "cool" to dis those guys. "What hacks!" Insane, but,
in the end, it helped keep me sane!
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Ron Sluyter
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 15  

Add me to the list that has become recently dissappointed with some of Geoff John's latest efforts.  I really like Green Lantern rebirth, but am about a year behind on reading the Green Lantern series, when they started crossing over to the GL Corps  I started to lose interest.  And a while back I dropped all Superman related titles (I couldn't finish reading his Braniac Story). 

I thought his initial run on the Flash was great, one of my favorites, but the Flash Rebirth #1 was tough to swallow.  My eyes have glazed over trying to read the Final Crisis and Legion of 3 worlds, I need to take another shot at them to bring myself up to speed I guess...  Then again, if comics become a chore to read , whats the point.  



Edited by Ron Sluyter on 09 April 2009 at 10:29am
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Robert Kowalewski II
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 16  

The only crossovers with GLC were during Sinestro Corps War(IIRC), since I was already reading both books it didn't bother me.  Blackest Night looks to be the same, but if they go the Final Crisis/Secret Invasion/ multi crossover crap I'll be disappointed.  Johns has gotten me interested in GL, and I'm going to see where he ends up going with Flash: Rebirth.
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 17  

Instead of trying to do a damn good job, he tries to "one up himself" with the next story.

It seems most modern 'hot' writers (Bendis, Millar, Morrisson) seem to be in the same trap of readers expecting their next story be more 'awesome' than their previous highs. I assume there was alot less pressure in the 'good ol' days', where writers worked in a relative vacuum and could focus simply on cranking out solid work to pay the bills. Maybe readers today feel a little too passionate about a given book, which probably makes writers like Johns second-guess themselves.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 18  

I'm not reading the Flash story (no interest in seeing Barry Allen return). But I'd be willing to give Johns the benefit of the doubt - maybe all is not as it initially appears.

I've enjoyed Johns work on JSA, Teen Titans, The Flash and Booster Gold tremendously. However, if he has one major flaw as a writer, it's that he sometimes has a "Can You Top This?" approach to his plots.

For example, the Flash once battled and defeated a dozen or so of his best villains in one climactic issue. It made for a good story - but what about the writers who have to follow that? Once you've set the bar that the Flash can beat a carload of villains at once, how can a battle with the Flash versus just the Mirror Master or Captain Cold ever hold anyone's attention?

 

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Troy Nunis
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 19  

For now I'm giving Johns the benefit of the doubt over the Father's arrest - as Paul noted, it's part of Barry stating why he went into forensics and more or less became a cop (and seemed to be heavily lifted from Crossing Jordan, and probably other sources) -- and at least pre-crisis, Barry's dad was a part of his life and not rotting in jail for murder, so . .

the first issue of Flash: Rebirth didn't sing as well as the first issue of GL: Rebirth to me - and Johns pacing does seem to be off as he is getting Morrison like in LONG set ups with quick (weak) payoffs . . but he still generally comes through in the end.

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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 20  

What the happened to Geoff Johns? There was a time when he seemed to know what he was doing!

Maybe you could work with him and get him back on the right track!  Maybe a GL miniseries . . . . .

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 21  

I'm too busy working with ME just now, thanks!
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Zaki Hasan
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:02pm | IP Logged | 22  

I'm not reading the Flash story (no interest in seeing Barry Allen return). But I'd be willing to give Johns the benefit of the doubt - maybe all is not as it initially appears.

*****

Agree on both points.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:04pm | IP Logged | 23  

It seems most modern 'hot' writers (Bendis, Millar, Morrisson) seem to be in
the same trap of readers expecting their next story be more 'awesome' than
their previous highs. I assume there was alot less pressure in the 'good ol'
days', where writers worked in a relative vacuum and could focus simply on
cranking out solid work to pay the bills.



You assume wrong.

But -- why does trying to outdo oneself each time mean violence, sex and
navel gazing? Chris and I were trying to outdo ourselves on every issue of
X-MEN. Me on my own on FF and ALPHA FLIGHT.

Of course, in those days we had to work within the Comics Code, which
meant we had to be clever.
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Geoff Gibson
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 24  

I'm too busy working with ME just now, thanks!

Yeah but you know what you're doing!  So does Geoff, but you could help mold him . . . besides I am defensive for guys named Geoff  . . . and I am greedy for a JB GL run -- Ganthet's Tale was not enough! 

Really dug Angel by the way!

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Clay Adams
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Posted: 09 April 2009 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 25  

Johns pacing does seem to be off as he is getting Morrison like in LONG
set ups with quick (weak) payoffs


I view Grant's current work as just the opposite: a series of payoffs without
the setups. It's like a comedian doing his set, but only telling the
punchlines.
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