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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 1
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Does anyone know what characters they're supposed to be seeking copyright termination for? Because I keep hearing lots of wild speculation and no facts on what time period and what chracters we're talking about. With very few exceptions, Kirby's work until 1970 was done with either Joe Simon or Stan Lee and I haven't heard anything about how this affects them.
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Kevin Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 8841
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 2
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Knut, pretrty much the entire Marvel Universe up until 1970 was co-created by Jack Kirby. Not all, but a very large, highly recognizable chunk of it. Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Thor, Captain America, Iron Man... Kirby had his hand in designing or outright creating the characters.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15778
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 3
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Spider-Man? I know he had an initial go at the design, but am I wrong in thinking that Spidey is 100% Ditko and Lee? edited to add: for clarity, when I say 'he had an initial go', I mean Kirby.
Edited by Peter Martin on 21 September 2009 at 7:17am
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 4
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I think it's in the rights of Kirby's children to try to gain a share of the copyrights.
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I know this is revisiting a past discussion, but how does anyone have a 'right' to the product of another person's labor?
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Adam Hutchinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4502
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 5
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I would guess because the "the products of his labor" are considered part of his estate, which is past on to his heirs.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 6
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I would guess because the "the products of his labor" are considered part of his estate, which is past on to his heirs.
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Estate rights are the right of Kirby to pass on what he owns to his heirs (as designated by him) in so far as he chooses to. The rights were Jack's. Heirs don't have the right, at least in the U.S., to claim pieces of their parents' estates against their parents' wishes.
And of course, this is material which Kirby himself didn't even own, that they're trying to claim on his behalf.
Rewarding people who have done nothing for things that their biological forebears accomplished does nothing to help our society. See Paris Hilton.
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 7
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"Knut, pretrty much the entire Marvel Universe up until 1970 was co-created by Jack Kirby. " I know what Kirby did. But they're not claiming overship over half the pre 1970 Marvel Universe, are they? Lots of those characters, including Spider-Man, are characters that Kirby doesn't even have bragging rights to. There has to be specific claims to specific characters that is then backed up with evidence. Some of the reports say that the Kirby estate served notice on Sony who only have rights to Spider-Man and Ghost Rider. If they're laying claim to Spider-Man or Ghost Rider, then how is this not frivolous or ill considered? We should know which characters are involved. If they've served 45 legal notices they must have a list of characters that they're claiming. At least a provisional list.
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Anthony Frail Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 October 2007 Posts: 960
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
I know this is revisiting a past discussion, but how does anyone have a 'right' to the product of another person's labor? |
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By being the family of the person. Tha'ts how people usually get their inheritance. I imagien Jack would love for his heirs to receive profit from his work. That was the whole point of him trying to regain his original artwork.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30886
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 9
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Well, if his heirs do get some sort of copyright ownership out of this, I do hope Stan gets half.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3488
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 8:57am | IP Logged | 10
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I imagien Jack would love for his heirs to receive profit from his work.
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You imagine, but you don't know. And you don't get inheritance by being biologically related. You get inheritance by someone deciding to leave something to you when you pass on. Maybe Jack didn't like some of his heirs. Maybe he would want one to get everything, and/or some to get nothing. The inheritance rights belonged to Jack. He had the right to pass on his possessions to his heirs (again, as designated by him, not by biology). His heirs have no 'right' to anything.
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Adam Hutchinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4502
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 11
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True, but to be fair do you know that he didn't want them to have the benefits of his creations?
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Knut Robert Knutsen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 September 2006 Posts: 7374
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Posted: 21 September 2009 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 12
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"I do hope Stan gets half." There is no conceivable situation whereby Stan Lee can reclaim any copyright to anything he ever created for Marvel. He was an actual employee of Marvel, mostly as an editor, since he was about 17 years old. None of the work he did in those years could possibly fall outside a work-for-hire situation. The sole possible exception being his Willie Lumpkin strip with Dan DeCarlo (or was it Stan Goldberg). But even then, by bringing Willie Lumpkin into the Marvel Universe himself, he cannot in good faith prevent Marvel from using him (at least in reprints).
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