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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132234
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 1
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Shooter was all along in on the notion of Phoenix/Jean becoming a villain. He endorsed it, encouraged it, practically tried to take credit for it. (That belongs to Steven Grant.) The general impression in the Office at the time, tho, was that Shooter resented any book's success for which he could not claim a great part of the credit, and the "success" (critical, but certainly not in the sales department!) Chris and I were enjoying was very much despite Shooter, not because of him. We spent an in ordinate amount of time and effort trying to work within his increasingly restrictive rules and still do the stories we wanted to do. Honestly, I have spent years trying to convince myself his reaction to the destruction of the D'Bari planet was NOT just an effort on his part to sabotage what we were doing.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 30886
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's threads like this one that make this my favorite board on the NetWeb.
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Petter Myhr Ness Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009 Location: Norway Posts: 3823
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 3
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"They want to do their own "Death of Phoenix", their own "event"..." -
And this is perhaps why Phoenix/Jean returned, only to be killed off again? Once or twice...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132234
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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It's difficult to make a strong case that Phoenix ever really went away. After I left the book (and even while I was still there!) Chris seized every opportunity to reference Phoenix, even in scenes where it was not intended. Eventually it became the habit around the Office to refer to Phoenix as the Least Dead Character in Comics. So much so, that when X-FACTOR was in the development stages, it seemed perfectly logical to take an idea Kurt Busiek had suggested, and "reveal" that Jean and Phoenix had never, in fact, been the same being. That was kind of a win/win situation -- we got Jean back, and Chris could do whatever he wanted with Phoenix.Of course, what happened after that was basically an unending cascade of bad ideas.
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Darren De Vouge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 December 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 3586
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 1:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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... And perhaps why "big events" now come rolling off an assembly line every year now.
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Ian Moss Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2009 Posts: 310
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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Maybe this response should go in the JBF FAQs ?
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Arc Carlton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009 Location: Peru Posts: 3493
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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It's wonderful to find out all this information behind the Phoenix story.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2188
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Posted: 05 December 2009 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | 8
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It has been wisely said that no one ever created a great comicbook story by setting out to create a great comicbook story. That's a lot of what's wrong with the industry right now. If you set out to create an "event" (in the sense of something that is truly memorable and not just a sales stunt) you will almost certainly fail. ______________________________________ This should be posted on the walls of the DC and Marvel offices.
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Glenn Brown Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3095
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Posted: 06 December 2009 at 3:31am | IP Logged | 9
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I remember reading an article in the LA Times about UXM #137 which may have printed the day it was released; if not, it was the same week. It was a Very Big Deal as I remember, garnering media coverage not only in the comic press but mainstream press as well. Comic shops were sold out immediately the Friday it came out (New Comic Day back then was Friday) and withheld copies placed behind the desk at a premium price, which sucked. After calling every comic shop within reasonable distance and realizing I had missed the bus, my eleven-year-old self feared I would never find a copy...until I spotted one through a large-paned liquor store window on a spinner rack as my mother drove down the street. "Mom...STOP THE CAR NOW" I intoned as if I'd just been possessed. She must have understood because she, indeed, pulled over and allowed me to rush inside and grab my copy before someone else got there first. Still have that original one but I think I have a minty one now as well.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12429
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Posted: 06 December 2009 at 7:01am | IP Logged | 10
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...we got Jean back, and Chris could do whatever he wanted with Phoenix. **** When the Dark Phoenix issues originally came out I was following them along with great interest and pleasure -- some absolutely terrific storytelling (duh) -- but only up to the finale. #137 was a letdown, in one specific way: Jean was dead. Having been first and foremost a fan of the original team, killing her off was not at all what I'd been hoping for. I certainly had no inkling of a "lobotomy" abandoned story, but I had expected that, since in #136 Jean and Professor Xavier together had fought against Phoenix and were temporarily successful, maybe #137 would find a way to permanently rid Jean of Phoenix and exonerate her somehow. I just wanted Jean back! I have to add, though, how happy I am to have learned half a century later how much JB loves the original team and how dedicated he is to the principle of "putting the toys back in the box" (etc), so I can surely see why he'd now prefer that the whole episode were wiped out.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132234
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Posted: 06 December 2009 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 11
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I remember reading an article in the LA Times about UXM #137 which may have printed the day it was released; if not, it was the same week. It was a Very Big Deal as I remember, garnering media coverage not only in the comic press but mainstream press as well. Comic shops were sold out immediately the Friday it came out (New Comic Day back then was Friday) and withheld copies placed behind the desk at a premium price, which sucked. •• I'm not sure how that's possible, Glenn. There was no prior notice of what was going to be in 137. Remember, Chris and I didn't even know ourselves! It shipped utterly without promotion, hype, hoopla, whatever. I cannot imagine how an article could have been written about the issue that would have come out any time close to the month it shipped, let alone the same week. And, remember, if the book "sold out" at the LCS, that would have been no big deal in 1980. The Direct Sales Market was still only a part of the marketplace as a whole. Anyone who could not find the issue at his/her LCS could have strolled down the block to the nearest drugstore and found it on the spinner rack there. It simply was not an "event" in anything like the modern sense. In fact, what it was, was something almost impossible to achieve in the modern marketplace: a surprise!
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Ed Sanders Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 7
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Posted: 06 December 2009 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 12
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I agree with JB....at that time comics rarely got any mainstream coverage unless it was a very big event with Superman or Spider-Man. The only real fan publication back then was maybe CBG and their advance info was mainly one sentence blurbs. It was a total and pleasant surprise for me when that issue hit the spinner racks.
Edited by Ed Sanders on 06 December 2009 at 7:39am
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