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Topic: Healthcare Debate (was: Quesada apologizes) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 1  

"and that anything the Government does a private business could do better.

****

Unfortunately though, this is the case more times than not. "


Except in the case of essential services required by every citizen, then private enterprise fails. Look at how well private enterprise worked for your banking industry, or the financial services sector. There are plenty of times when private enterprise is completely inferior to the Government.

Let's use your banking collapse as an example: private enterprise-run banks failed, people lost their money, their homes, etc. In Canada, if a bank fails each bank account I had with that bank is insured by the Government for up to $100 000 dollars. That money goes to me  to cover my losses if my bank fails, not the bank. Where did all the bail out money go in the US? To the banks or to the people?

It seems to me that any American who says  "The USA is the best country in the world, our Government is the best Government" should really be saying " I was wrong, our Government can't do anything as well as other countries that somehow mange to do what ours can not"

The US government could run a tax-payer funded, Universal Health care system, and probably come up with innovations to do it better than any other country so far has done, but Republicans have convinced roughly half the citizens that anything government run and funded by taxes is evil, socialist, wrong, and inferior.

To me evil is: I have more money than you, I deserve better health care than you. 

Other counties count on and trust their governments to deliver the things deemed essential for their citizens, and they hold their government accountable if it fails. It seems like in the states the train of thought is " our government could never do a good job with this better let private enterprise run with it" instead of holding that government accountable at election time.



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Mike Benson
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 6:16pm | IP Logged | 2  

If the agencies you mentioned were providing enough care, then we wouldn't be having this debate.

******

Agreed. 

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Mike Benson
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 3  

Marc, the bailout money is not the equivalent of the insurance you speak of.  We have a similar insurance that covers losses for individuals that have deposits in a failed bank.  Apples and oranges, my friend. 

Your other points, I can't completely disagree with, unfortunately. 

Except, I do disagree with your basic premise, to a degree.  To lift up our Canadian neighbors as a bastion of social equality is a bit disingenuous, isn't it?  Plenty of haves and have nots up there too, no? 

 



Edited by Mike Benson on 26 March 2010 at 6:49pm
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Mike Benson
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 6:33pm | IP Logged | 4  

Oh, and our super heroes are way better than yours too.  I mean, c'mon...Puck???
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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 5  

The US government could run a tax-payer funded, Universal Health care system, and probably come up with innovations to do it better than any other country so far has done, but Republicans have convinced roughly half the citizens that anything government run and funded by taxes is evil, socialist, wrong, and inferior.

--------------------

And that's why it's so crazy here right now.  The rhetoric has been amazingly successful.  And it spins off into weird directions.  I've lost track of how many people who are convinced that their guns are next in line, like this government is some cackling disarming montrosity.  As much as I hated hated HATED the Bush Administration, I never thought it was bad enough to weigh violent opposition.  And some think Obama's already come for the guns, pointing out shortages all over the nation, to which I had to reply that Bush must have outlawed the Wii a couple of Christmases ago, then.

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Marc M. Woolman
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 6  

"Except, I do disagree with your basic premise, to a degree.  To lift up our Canadian neighbours as a bastion of social equality is a bit disingenuous, no?  Plenty of haves and have nots up there too, no? "

I'm not trying to say Canada is a bastion of social equity, I'm trying to say our health care system treats it citizens better than the For-profit version Americans have.
Why is pointing out that there are some things every single person should have equal access to no matter what, suddenly an allegory for haves and have nots? A wealthier person than I should have lots of things I can't have, but not health care.


Edited by Marc M. Woolman on 26 March 2010 at 6:52pm
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 8:56pm | IP Logged | 7  

Mike the right on here is either ignoring or agreeing with the violence and hate mongering that is going on, so I want to post this to let everyone know what is happening so they can't claim , "Well I didn't know this was going on" because they failed to click on your link.

A Nashville man says he and his 10-year-old daughter were victims of road rage Thursday afternoon, all because of a political bumper sticker on his car.

Mark Duren told News 2 the incident happened around 4:30p.m., while he was driving on Blair Boulevard, not far from Belmont University.

He said Harry Weisiger gave him the bird and rammed into his vehicle, after noticing an Obama-Biden sticker on his car bumper.

Duren had just picked up his 10-year-old daughter from school and had her in the car with him.

"He pointed at the back of my car," Duren said, "the bumper, flipped me off, one finger salute."


Once he started driving again, down Blair Boulevard, towards his home, he said, "I looked in the rear view mirror again, and this same SUV was speeding, flying up behind me, bumped me."

Duren said he applied his brake and the SUV smashed into the back of his car.

He then put his car in park to take care of the accident, but Weisiger started pushing the car using his SUV.

Duren said, "He pushed my car up towards the sidewalk, almost onto the sidewalk."

Police say Harry Weisiger is charged with felony reckless endangerment in the incident.

Edited by Jodi Moisan on 26 March 2010 at 9:00pm
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 9:08pm | IP Logged | 8  

Wait, Jodi, there's more...
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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 9  

Im sad the story did not end with shit bag  pulled from SUV and beaten to within an inch of his life. 

Edited by Victor Rodgers on 26 March 2010 at 10:35pm
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Al Cook
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 10  

Be interesting to see hard, comparative numbers between the poverty line in Canada, and that in the States: what constitutes 'poverty' in each country, and the percentage of the population in each that lives below that.

In the meantime, though, I feel pretty safe to say to Mike Benson that we seem to have considerably fewer have nots than you.  And quite confident that the numbers would back that up.

And Puck rules.
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Mike O'Brien
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 11  

I think Jodi has a good idea - no point in posting just links - here's some content - here's what a Democratic Congressmen got in the mail:

"It is apparent that it will take a few assassinations to stop Obamacare. Militia central has selected you for assassination. If we cannot stalk and find you in Washington, D.C., we will get you in Little Rock."

Yikes.

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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 26 March 2010 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 12  

"Unfortunately though, this is the case more times than not.  "

I keep hearing this being said by conservatives, yet every time they privatise a service here under the motto of "more for less", we inevitably end up with "less for more".  In cleaning services, for instance, the "efficiency" consists of buildings being cleaned less thoroughly in much shorter time by inexperienced workers who will work for much less pay/ work security.

In both private enterpise and goivernment you have to pay for quality. But government has no profit requirement and faced with a choice between"profit" and quality they are often required by law to choose quality. While private enterprise has to get its profit from somewhere.

If we estimate that a private business aims for a 10% profit margin (before or after taxes), we have to presume that every single government service is at least 10% inefficient just to put it on par with a fully efficient private enterprise. And that private enterprise from day one (to justify its competitive bidding) can recoup 10% efficiency without a reduction of services either by quantity or quality. Simply by being "private".

the "private is always/mostly better than public" mantra is just some bullshit that conservatives take on faith. And if you elect them, they'll make damn sure to change the terrain to fit the map.

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