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Topic: Alan Moore and the Rights to Watchmen (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Tim Farnsworth
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Posted: 26 July 2010 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 1  

 Brad Krawchuk wrote:
Why? I'm asking honestly here. In the context of the story, the most exciting, dramatic, and epic thing they ever did was the story told in the book!

Because I don't need to see epic from them. When you really like the characters in a story, sometimes you just want to see more of them, like revisiting old friends.

As to the smallness of their escapades relative to a traditional superhero comic, it all comes down to the writing. There are epic scenes in Watchmen that are great - Jon raising the clockwork structure on Mars - and there are small scenes that are great - the news vendor talking to the kid, the psychiatrist having difficulties with his wife, etc.

Also, while Moore downplayed the heroes as a fad, he also talk about Ozymandias shutting down a major heroin and opium smuggling ring, Comedian "cleaning up the waterfronts", and even Rorschach and Nite-Owl bringing the gangs under control (presambly just New York's gangs, but still...) It's downplayed, of course - Moore clearly indicates masked adventurers are ineffective in the big scheme of things, but given that they're also just normal people taking on foes with physical prowess, these are rather remarkable events. So is the second Nite Owl building his teched-out ship. And apparently Comedian was alarmingly effective for a normal guy, such that Nite Owl talks about him "knocking over Marxist republics in South America."


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They didn't fight supervillains though! It's not like Rorschach and Nite-Owl took on the Sinister Six, or even just Sandman or Rhino or Joker or Penguin or Two-Face. They had no such Rogues Gallery!

Not supervillains per se, but just going by the names dropped, the masked bad guys included Big Figure, Moloch, Captain Axis, Underboss, Twilight Lady, King Mob, and the Screaming Skull. I'm probably forgetting a few. So, yes, the had a rogues gallery, even if it was on a small scale.

I freely admit any new Watchmen material would likely fall on its face, but the movie's come and gone and the comic's still standing. I figure any new Watchmen projects will simply be forgotten in a few years, no harm done either...unless they happen to be good and win fans over. In which case it was a worthy experiment!

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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 26 July 2010 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 2  

...because the one time they actually needed to be super-heroes was the story we already read!*

*P.S. ... and they FAILED.

Brad, you have articulately and concisely identified the central pitfall with that project!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 26 July 2010 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 3  

Did a comic company not use the Next Men in cheap publicity stunts?

I know Danny sought them out because he had read one of their comics and they shamelessly exploited the situation.

And there it is. So, so, so, so, so very BORING when this game is played. "I know you did THIS, but it supports my position better if I pretend you did THAT."

Boring, boring, boring.

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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 26 July 2010 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 4  

Brad, you have articulately and concisely identified the central pitfall with that project!

---

See, I LIKE Watchmen. So in and of itself, I don't find that description a pitfall. However, what DC and Marvel chose to do after Watchmen - how they reacted to it by allowing it to happen to their characters - THAT is a pitfall I hate. 

Watchmen is what it is. A singular story with no ties to any other titles, universes, or anything else. It stands alone. So the good guys CAN lose, superheroes CAN be ineffective. In that world, in that work, that's how it rolls. 

The fact that the higher ups at DC and Marvel allowed that to trickle into their universes... well, those are supposed to be ongoing, aren't they? Those are supposed to be all ages, aren't they? Those are supposed to have genre conventions and motifs that, once you question them, you know it's time to quit. You either accept them for what they are or you move on, like Archie or Saturday morning cartoons. Everything superhero comics were, Watchmen wasn't, and instead of just leaving well enough alone and saying "well, that was interesting, but back to work!" they said "HEY, LET'S DO THAT!"

I don't blame Moore. Heck, even if he wanted to change comics, even if the world we live in today was his proudest achievement, he's just one guy. No, the problem rests squarely with Marvel and DC for not only allowing it to bleed into their worlds, but for actively encouraging it and promoting it. 
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Tony Midyett
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 5  

I betcha DC gets Gaiman or Ellis to write it, with a big plot assist from Gibbons, who will also draw it.  I also pedict it'll be a prequel, because it would be hell trying to follow that "what if the journal ruins everything?" ending.  And one more prediction:  DC will charge about 50% more for the damn thing than they would for anything that didn't have "Watchmen" in the title.
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Ian Penman
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 6  

Bearing in mind the huge commercial success of Watchmen over the last twentyfour years, I think DC have been very restrained in not putting any sort of follow-up or prequel out so far!

Let's see if it happens, eh?  My guess for writer would be Grant Morrison.

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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 7  

My guess for writer would be Grant Morrison.

---

The synopsis will be stellar, and the ideas big and bold - but the execution won't make any narrative sense and it won't look, read, or feel anything like the characters have before because they'll be changed radically to suit whatever plot Morrison has in his head. 

Yeah, I think that's karmic justice for The Killing Joke. Have Grant do it!
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Matthew McCallum
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 8  

Brad, you have articulately and concisely identified the central pitfall with that project!

***

See, I LIKE Watchmen. So in and of itself, I don't find that description a pitfall. However, what DC and Marvel chose to do after Watchmen - how they reacted to it by allowing it to happen to their characters - THAT is a pitfall I hate. 
 
***
 
Brad,
 
Just to clarify, I thought you artuculated the central pitfall of Watchmen the Sequel.
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 9  

Ah. Right-O. Carry on, then.
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Glenn Brenner
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 10  

There is a long, documented 'feud' between Morrison and Moore, and on top of that Morrison has gone on record about how he doesn't care for Watchmen. I don't really see Morrison writing any Watchmen comics any time soon.
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Tim Farnsworth
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Posted: 27 July 2010 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 11  

Yeh, I always wondered if Morrison was just having Moore on when he takes small shots at him in interviews - sort of taking the over-serious icon down a peg - or if it's really a feud. If it's really a feud, is there more info on it anywhere? I'm curious. 

As someone alluded previously, there was some talk about doing an alternate world take on Watchmen using (I think) the original Charlton characters. Haven't heard anything on it lately. If it happened I imagine it'd play out something like Brad's hypothetical above.

Ellis and most of the other Brit writers I suspect would pass on the project as a show of respect, but there might be an exception in there somewhere.
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Monte Gruhlke
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Posted: 28 July 2010 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 12  

You know, I still don't understand the clamor about a writer who's had nothing but simmering contempt for the industry (and at times his own 'creations'). He's not a prophet - Moore is more... like a Chatty-Kathy Doll, only he keeps pulling his own string.
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