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Topic: Bitter? Moi? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132320
Posted: 13 November 2010 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 1  

I realize that what I am about to write will unleash a torrent of comments across the 'Net from those microbrains who are able to "think" only when someone tells them what to say -- ie, when someone like me says "I don't like this. . . " do they race to use/do/say "this" as much and as often as they can, but. . .

I'm really tired of seeing myself referred to as "bitter". Let's get this really clear and straight in all our minds (no matter how tiny and useless some of those minds may be): I am not bitter. I am ANGRY.

I have seen comics, an entertainment form once intended for the widest possible audiences, and an entertainment form to which I have dedicated a most of my adult life, turned into a niche market exercise in mutual masturbation for aging fanboys and ennui engorged bungee jumpers.

I have seen characters I grew up loving and admiring, and even perhaps trying to emulate, turned into bleak, empty, virtually pornographic caricatures of themselves.

I have seen something which was once done purely for the love of it turned into something that is all about money.

And, ladies and gentlemen, I am PISSED.

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Flavio Sapha
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
Posted: 13 November 2010 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 2  

I remember a time when I was angry at IMAGE, for blotting the landscape
with their crap comics. Little did I know they were just the tip of the
iceberg.

Edited by Flavio Sapha on 13 November 2010 at 9:00pm
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Mal Gardiner
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Joined: 28 April 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 574
Posted: 13 November 2010 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 3  

Shit hot, chief, maintain the rage. Now what do we do to rectify the situation? At our end of the scale - the buyers and readers - we can't do much more than boycott the crappy products and voice our displeasure. Consider that done, I haven't picked up an ongoing monthly book in about eight or ten years. I can't even look at the majority of trades these days without thinking "what the hell happened here?" It's in the hands of the true professionals - like your good self - to keep making noise that people will listen to and understand that the form can be great again, not this soft-porn parody that simply strip mines and reprocesses the great work done in years past.

Unfortunately, any delivery of opinion on the subject immediately draws cries of "grandpa" and "living in the past, get over it". That's the biggest drawback that I see, the fact that the people who are ruining our favourite artform are the ones who directly influence and direct trends and tastes, promoting technical competency at the cost of good, honest storytelling and solid work ethics.

Cheers, Mal

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Emery Calame
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 9:55pm | IP Logged | 4  

Eventually  ^^***** will announce a miniseries that is essentially about how far Spider-Woman can stick her ass into the air while prowling around on all fours. I suspect that Frank Cho will be involved somehow. Insert bonus Greg Land joke here.

Edited by Emery Calame on 13 November 2010 at 9:56pm
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 5  

If only Stan the Man would get good and angry once in a while over what's been done to his creations.  Maybe then, someone would listen.

 

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 10:34pm | IP Logged | 6  

If only Stan the Man would get good and angry once in a while over what's been done to his creations.  Maybe then, someone would listen.

+++++++++++++++

Speaking from recent experience (I met Stan!!!! Wow!!!!!), I think it it's safe to say that he's simply too gracious and too much of a class act to do something like that.

At the Q & A I attended, a fan asked him something along those lines (something like, "Do you feel bad when a writer does something you don't like with a character you created?"), and he basically dodged the question.

 

Oh, and just today, I was talking with someone (who's a fan of the genre) about the sorry state of the industry, and I had to carefully tread the line between sounding like someone who's genuinely angry and hurt by the way things are, and sounding like a bitter, jaded fanboy!

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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 7  

And, ladies and gentlemen, I am PISSED.

******************************

And somewhere down the line someone will read that as "pissy" and a new bad Byrne story has begun.

 

But, seriously, I can totally understand where you're coming from, JB.  I stopped reading Marvel entirely when I saw how things were going to go...  I still miss reading the real FF and Spider-Man.

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Brad Brickley
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 10:45pm | IP Logged | 8  

I'll speak towards the JB is bitter thing first.  I grew up in a family that had strong opinions, so I've never thought of John Byrne as bitter, just a man of strong opinions.  Many opinions  towards comics I share, some on other things I don't.

I've learned along the way that if someone doesn't share the same opinions as me, I really don't care.  I am able to agree to disagree.  I'm not sure why some care so much about what others think.  If JB doesn't like something and I do, so be it.  If he says something on the forum and I don't like it, I can drop it and move on.  I really don't care.  I find I agree with him on more things than not, so I can move on. 

As for JB's comment on comics, I agree fully.  Comics have morphed into something that I can hardly follow anymore.  I really don't get why anyone wants to change what was basically a perfect escape format.   I love comics!   I love them for the grandeur, the nobility of the characters, the FUN!  I really don't want to see Henry & Janet Pym having sex,  or Batman having a illegitimate kid or stories that are drawn out for months at a time and by the end you can't remember why you even started, just off the top of my head. 

I also dislike the fact that when someone asks where to buy comics I have to tell them that the closet place is about 20 miles away and I'm not sure that Spider-Man is appropriate for a child. 

Comic classics of the past that we all love weren't events, they were stories that became classics because they were great stories!  You didn't need a mini-series, with tie-ins all titles across the line, to tell a great story.  You just needed a great idea.  I miss new ideas, why do we have to recycle all the old stuff?  Why not come up with new ideas?  I also miss fun. 

I still find a few comics I enjoy, but I've dropped most.  I appreciate this forum for helping me to develop a critical eye towards a format I love.
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Trevor Smith
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Joined: 21 September 2006
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 10:49pm | IP Logged | 9  

"I have seen characters I grew up loving and admiring, and even
perhaps trying to emulate..."

**

Absolutely spot on JB. As a kid I learned SO much of what has
formed me today from comics. I say that unashamedly and with a
great deal of pride. Spider-Man taught me that with great power
comes great responsibility, and that the right choices aren't always the
easy ones, and y'know what? To this very day that simple thought
*still* forms a big chunk of my own personal moral code.

Superman (and a host of others) helped reinforce the idea of doing
good for good's sake. Have there been times in my life where I've
wondered what a favourite character might do in a given situation and
used that to inform my own actions? You betcha. I could go on and
on about this topic, now you've brought it up.

And what do the kids today get from comics? What lessons do they
learn? What guidance is there to be had from the characters who
helped shape me?

See, I'm not even in the business and the more I think about what's
been done to heroes of my youth, and how they've been stolen from
today's kids, the angrier *I* get, so yeah JB, I guess you've got a bit of
a right to be angry and pissed.

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Brad Brickley
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | 10  

As a kid I learned SO much of what has
formed me today from comics.

****

Totally agree!  I guess I'm naive, but even today that I'm still surprised when I come across other comicbook people and they smoke.   I'm thinking, "Didn't you read comics?  Don't you know you're not supposed to  smoke!  Our heroes didn't smoke, didn't you learn anything?" 

Heck, I've never done drugs, I was too into comics.  I'd rather spend my money on comics than drugs.  It's like when I see Kevin Smith, I'm thinking, what comics was he reading, because my heroes never smoked dope.  I'm a dork, I know, but that's okay.
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Brad Krawchuk
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Joined: 19 June 2006
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Posted: 13 November 2010 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 11  

I made the point earlier tonight, coincidentally, while talking with a family member about how I don't read anymore Spider-Man comics despite my love for the character. She suggested I outgrew him and I stopped her by saying he outgrew me

I can't go into a comic shop and buy Amazing Spider-Man and give it to my four year old nephew, which means there's something fundamentally wrong with what's going on in those books. And as long as they aren't appropriate for the age at which I started reading (learning to read) them, then it's not something I'll be spending my money on. 
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Lars Sandmark
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Posts: 3144
Posted: 13 November 2010 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 12  


Microbrains aside, John Byrne is within his rights to be angry over the current state of comicbook storytelling.
As a professional who contributes to that industry and is responsible for some highly regarded stories, his opinion is what I consider EXPERT.

JB is absolutely right to feel upset about the way the characters are being handled these days and I wish there were someone at the comic-publishing arm of MarvelEntertainment that would listen.

He's angry because he CARES about SuperHeroes. We all do. Although I'm not sure the publishers do.

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