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Topic: Jim Shooter: The Origin of the Dark Phoenix Saga (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Larry Morris
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Posted: 03 June 2011 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 1  


 QUOTE:

 and Jean coming back and dying again and again and again.



It still irks me that this is what the character is viewed as, by so many people,  when she didn't do that for over 15 years.  Then Morrison brought it back and now she's a cariacture.  The chick who dies all the time. 
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Martin Redmond
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Posted: 03 June 2011 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 2  

^Let's just turn our nose up and walk away at the gross ignorance in jeannieology.
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Brian Miller
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Posted: 03 June 2011 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 3  

 Larry Morris wrote:
It still irks me that this is what the character is viewed as, by so many people,  when she didn't do that for over 15 years.

How many times did Phoenix appear ( or seem to appear) between UXM 137 and X-FACTOR 1? I can think of 3 just off the top of my head. It was the idea of the character that just wouldn't stay gone.

 Larry again wrote:
The chick who dies all the time.

You DO know the mythology behind the name Phoenix, right?

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Larry Morris
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Posted: 03 June 2011 at 7:25pm | IP Logged | 4  

Gee, let me think.  Yeah, I believe I know the mythology of the Phoenix. That doesn't change the fact that, for a bunch of fans, she's the chick who dies all the time  Truth be told, she's been dead for 6 years once and the better part of 7 this time.  The deaths have been a lot more impactful then the rising from the ashes part.

Sure there were times it was mentioned post 1986.  It was a famous character in one of the series' signature stories.  At the time, it had taken Jean Grey's likeness.  The idea of it was used.  There is a big difference between that and turning Jean back into that character.

And I'll be more than happy to match my ignorance of Jean Grey, 1963-2004, that is, with anyone here.  I think I'll hold up pretty well.

 

 

 

 

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Michael Todd
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:37am | IP Logged | 5  


 QUOTE:
I did not much like the idea of doing this to one of Marvel's oldest characters (and their second female superhero!)

JB, didn't the Wasp pre-date Marvel Girl as Marvel's second Super-Heroine?



Edited by Michael Todd on 06 June 2011 at 4:44am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 6  

JB, didn't the Wasp pre-date Marvel Girl as Marvel's second Super-Heroine?

Are you asking and answering your own question?

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Michael Todd
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 5:01am | IP Logged | 7  

Actually I asked, then I remembered the Grand Comic Book Database site and checked the cover date of that Tales to Astonish issue.
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Brett Tolino
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 8  

I bought X-Men #137 off the stand, the day it came out as a very-eager- to-read-it-13 year old. And while I agree, then and now, the published ending was much more dramatic/emotional, I still believe that the stories following would have been much better had Phoenix survived as originally intended. The last great X-Men issue was #143 and I'll even go so far as to say #144 was ok. I only kept buying the book because I loved the Kitty Pryde character and that love would keep me buying the book regularly only until around issue # 175

Cockrum's art was okay on #145 onward but the stories were pretty terrible. I hated the whole Dr. Doom story (ROGUE STORM -- DARE WE DO IT AGAIN? I thought that was dumb even as a thirteen year old), #148-149 were just embarrassing, especially that hideous Kitty Pryde costume. #150 was okay because it had Magneto as the villain but again, I had always wished they went along with the original story because the planned #150 by Claremont/Byrne would have been killer.

 In fact, the whole storyline would have been amazing; the classic run would have been X-Men #129-150 instead of just #129-137. And I also remember reading what was supposed to happen to Wolverine had John stayed on, which also would have been a zillion times more interesting that what saw print. 

To this day, the last page of Phoenix: The Untold Story is one of the most moving, emotional pieces of art I've ever seen. Seeing Scott holding her shoes as Jean is leaning over, touching that lily in the pond, what an image!

In short, readers got the dramatic ending to # 137 but in trade, received a less than stellar run of issues following and the beginning of the whole death as a revolving door/event thing. Personally, I don't think Shooter should be patting himself on the back so hard, especially since Jean Grey ended up coming back a few more times anyway. 

 



Edited by Brett Tolino on 06 June 2011 at 2:46pm
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Eric Smearman
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 9  

Kitty's costume was, indeed, hideous but brilliant at the same time! An
awful costume pieced together by an overeager 14 year old? Genius! I
never thought it would stay for long (and it didn't.). If anything, my big
concern was that that would be the beginning of Kitty stowing away on
missions a la Spritle and Chim-Chim.
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Brad Hague
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Posted: 06 June 2011 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 10  

I liked Uncanny X-Men from 94 all the way to 150.  I even enjoyed 151 to 153.  I started losing interest when the Brood entered the picture.
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 11  

I didn't like how "cute" the book became over time.

I mean...c'mon...









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Kip Lewis
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Posted: 07 June 2011 at 7:35pm | IP Logged | 12  

ah, Kitty's Fairy Tale was pure fun! And love that 2nd pic.
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