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Michael Todd
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 1  

On the Captain America lawsuit is there even anyone left alive from the Timely era when Cap was created?  I know Stan Lee came after Cap's creation as he once said his first writing job was on an issue of Captain America Comics.
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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 2  

"Is it separate or part of contention over the claims of the creation of Captain America and Spider-man not being part of the "Work for Hire" contracts? Because those two involve different issues.  "

Captain America was created solely by Joe Simon, then offered to Timely and was not created work-for-hire. Simon tried to reclaim Captain America for himself and Jack Kirby in 1969, but was foiled by Marvel cutting a separate deal with Jack Kirby that precluded him from taking the character elsewhere.

The listing of Kirby as co-creator and co-owner was based on the ongoing business partnership between him and Simon, and Kirby's work in developing the character after it was sold to Timely.

When Simon tried to reclaim it again, he asked for termination based on the more formally correct claim (supported by the Kirby Estate) that for legal purposes Joe Simon alone created and designed Captain America.

Kirby's claim for Spider-man is based on him pitching a Spider.named hero (with different powers and attributes) to Stan Lee for a new series, based on an unpublished concept left over from the Simon and Kirby studios. Such a claim, if succesful, could possibly draw even Joe Simon into the mix, something he discusses with amusement in his memoir "The Comic Book Makers".  

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Michael Todd
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 5:56am | IP Logged | 3  

JB's take on Kirby's Spider-Man design.

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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 6:58am | IP Logged | 4  

Because our only motivation in getting into comics was the sheer love of the characters and the whole concept of comics.

A nice explanation for the stunted creativity nowadays, well said.

Personally, I started off dreaming of working in some capacity for the 'Big Two'; as I got older and understood better about how things were run, I decided to try to do my own comics, my way, simply because I love the medium so much, and can't imagine doing anything else.

Unfortunately, small press is not really a great way to pay the bills, but what the hey <g>....

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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 5  

 JB wrote:
Because our only motivation in getting into comics was the sheer love of the characters and the whole concept of comics. We didn't get into comics to make ourselves rich. There was virtually no way to do that. We operated on pride of accomplishment.


Earlier this spring, I started as a writer/researcher for Marvel's Handbook team. It pays a page rate, but the sheer volume of research that has to go into writing a character profile, then going through the editorial and peer review process, choosing appropriate images, etc all make the pay negligible to the time spent working on each project.

But that's not the point.  I love Marvel's characters, and this gets me a chance to be a part of that world in some way.  Seeing my name in the credits block of a comic book is the most exciting part to me.  I imagine that's how it was for the guys back in JB's early days.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 6  

 Roger wrote:
...Earlier this spring, I started as a writer/researcher for Marvel's Handbook team...

That's cool! Are you going to handle the Iron Man entries, Roger?

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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 29 July 2011 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 7  

Maybe, if there's an Iron Man or Avengers related book coming up!
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Michael Todd
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Posted: 30 July 2011 at 4:33am | IP Logged | 8  

You know, Kirby's Spider-Man design was quite reminiscent of DC Comics' Tarantula character.

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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 9  

You know, Kirby's Spider-Man design was quite reminiscent of DC Comics'
Tarantula character.
---
I just read the Tarantula's origin story in ALL-STAR SQUADRON #39 last
night. In it, much is made of the similarities between his costume and
Sandman's. Also, in his first appearance, the Tarantula is called Spider Man a
couple of times.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 30 July 2011 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 10  

I just read the Tarantula's origin story in ALL-STAR SQUADRON #39 last night. In it, much is made of the similarities between his costume and Sandman's. Also, in his first appearance, the Tarantula is called Spider Man a couple of times.

••

Kirby was never particularly shy about recycling!

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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 30 July 2011 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 11  

 Knut wrote:
...Kirby's claim for Spider-man is based on him pitching a Spider.named hero (with different powers and attributes) to Stan Lee for a new series, based on an unpublished concept left over from the Simon and Kirby studios. Such a claim, if succesful, could possibly draw even Joe Simon into the mix, something he discusses with amusement in his memoir "The Comic Book Makers"...

It is silly that anyone, even Jack Kirby himself, would try to say that the character that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko came up with was the same character that Joe Simon and Jack Kirby were developing over at Archie Comics, which ultimately became The Fly, in reworked fashion. That original "Spider-Man" concept had nothing in common with Peter Parker and his alter-ego outside of the name. In fact, Simon & Kirby's (and it was both men, not just Jack's) Spider-Man took quite a bit from the original Captain Marvel's origin: A young boy is given the ability to transform into an adult superhero thanks to a magical being.

Simply put, Simon & Kirby's Spider-Man is NOT the same character as Marvel's hero, at all.

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Michael Todd
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Posted: 30 July 2011 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 12  

So...the story Stan used to tell about trying to think up a new Super-Hero then noticing a fly crawling on a wall, then going down a list of insect names until he comes to "Spider-Man" is it untrue? Was it a pitch from Jack Kirby with the name of "Spider-Man" that was what prompted the character?
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