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Knut Robert Knutsen
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 4:07am | IP Logged | 1  

Aren't the people who incarcerated her the same religious military order that was working for the Silence/Madame Kevorian? I would think her imprisonment was in part a way to keep "their" weapon under control.

And it's sort of been established that the Doctor and River have now had several fun adventures off-screen where their relationship has developed. I don't see the marriage as a trick but as a gesture of trust by the Doctor. I thought that was how it was intended.

And the important part in creating the "fixed point" was not, it seems, to have River kill the Doctor, but to have both River and the Doctor together. Even though River has lost her regenerations, she is still part Time-Lord. Also, the illusion of the Doctor's death creates a similar string of consequences through time as his actual death. We've seen with other fixed points that the one thing you cannot do is to undo the thing that makes it a fixed point, but you can work around the edges.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 4:24am | IP Logged | 2  

Since the title of this thread says "Spoilers" I won't bother with inviso-text for this. . .

On the matter of River Song, if ever there was a "patchwork" character, she is it! When we first "met" her, in "The Silence in the Library" she was hinted to have some kind of close personal relationship with the Doctor. Was she perhaps his wife, in some future iteration? (I even saw some wondering if she was meant to BE the Doctor, having at some point regenerated into a female form. There was a good bit of "Well, why not?" discussion around that one!) Whatever the exact scenario, she calls him "Sweetie", to his great embarrassment, and clearly their relationship has been, ah, romantic.

But now we find out that River, as "Mels" was instantly smitten with the Doctor on first sight -- like Rose, like Martha, like Donna (tho it was less "instant" for her). Like even Sara Jane, apparently. So being "in love" with the Doctor would seem to be less of a big deal. We should probably be wondering about all the other female companions. Did they have the hots for the Doctor, too?

River, tho, is actually MARRIED to the Doctor -- tho when that finally happens it's almost an afterthought. And there seems no reason for it, other than "it says here in the script. . . " But River is ultimately a noble and worthy person, right? She makes all kinds of sacrifices for the Doctor, like giving up her future regenerations (which we did not previously know Time Lords could do, so we really don't know the ultimate effect it has on her!) and allowing herself to be locked away as his murderer (except, as noted, that doesn't seem to be much of an inconvenience for her).

Mary Sue, how do you do?

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Michael Lee
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 3  

Don't get me wrong - I like River Song. But I do hold one big grudge against the character, and that is that it's now very unlikely that ex-companion & famed archaeologist Bernice Summerfield (from the '90s books & Big Finish audios) is very unlikely to appear on the show.

Benny was there first River!
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Michael Tortorice
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 4:55am | IP Logged | 4  

So to bottom-line it, if you have to make this many assumptions and excuses, its bad writing. As if this series suffered from Buffy/Angel/Firefly Syndrome in reverse: Moffett spent too much time with it, rather than not enough.

But to go back to Jack for just a minute, the Doctor wasn't just "creeped out." His exact words were: "I can't help it. I'm a Time Lord. It's instinct; it's in my guts. You're a fixed point in time and space; you're a fact. That's never meant to happen. Even the TARDIS reacted against you, tried to shake you off. Flew all the way to the end of the universe just to get rid of you."

I only bring it up again because of the part in italics. But then it could just be added to the near infinite list of other things that were established and discarded later when they were inconvenient to the next story.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 5  

As if this series suffered from Buffy/Angel/Firefly Syndrome in reverse: Moffett spent too much time with it, rather than not enough.

Can we really say that, tho? The season got interrupted in the middle because Moffatt wanted to go play with Sherlock Holmes some more. To what degree was Holmes intruding upon his thought processes as he worked on the first half of the season? The whole thing reads very much as if attention was not being paid where necessary.

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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 6  

While the episode had some good moments (e.g. Amy putting the eyepatch back on the Countess and her subsequent line about the source of River's personality) it felt like there were a few big beats but not much to connect them coherently. Plus a few cheats to make it all work together.

The end line about "Doctor Who?" made me cringe because for a moment I thought "Oh no, next season they're actually going to tell us his real name."

While this season had a few good episodes, it overall felt very uneven. Given the cost of BBC America DVDs, I'm going to hold off getting this full season until Amazon has a big sale.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 7  

While this season had a few good episodes, it overall felt very uneven.

**

Agreed. Matt Smith's first season gave us several episodes I have watched more than once. This season, none. I may, at some point, return to "Night Terrors" and "Closing Time", but they don't draw me back like "Vincent and the Doctor", or "Amy's Choice", or "The Vampires of Venice". . .

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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 8:53am | IP Logged | 8  

Definitely, JB. I've rewatched "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Beast Below" quite a few times and my enjoyment has not waivered. However, though there may be a few from this season I'd rewatch (e.g. "Night Terrors", "The Doctor's Wife" and maybe "Closing Time"), there is not enough interest to have me flip to the channel should I check my channel guide and see one of them re-airing.
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Dennis Maloney
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 9  

As I said I hope series 7 will be better. the only downside is having to wait a year for it. Although the extra time may allow them to do it right (fingers crossed).
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John Byrne
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 10  

I've rewatched "Vincent and the Doctor" and "The Beast Below" quite a few times and my enjoyment has not waivered.

And there's the subjectivity of it all, in a nutshell -- or perhaps a blue box. I did not care for "The Beast Below". Have not rewatched it since the first viewing!

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Jeremiah Avery
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Posted: 03 October 2011 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 11  

That's one highlight of Series 5 - there's enough of a mix of episodes that can appeal to different viewers. There may be a few that may not warrant subsequent viewings but there are plenty of others to choose from to enjoy. This season doesn't quite have that for me.
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Rob Spalding
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Posted: 05 October 2011 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 12  

One thought about the Brigadier - Nicholas Courtney was a wondeful part of Doctor Who for 40 odd years.  That the Doctor finds out he's missed his last chance to say goodbye to his old friend I thought was a lovely tribute to the man and the character.
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