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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 1
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That change has become apparent to me in the makeup of the X-Men and their spinoff groups. The X-Men that John Byrne grew up with back in his youth were all white Americans; when I was getting into the book, they had an African (Storm), and only two original American members (Cyclops and Phoenix), the rest being from Canada (Wolverine) and Europe (Banshee, Nightcrawler and Colossus*). Marvel was in that period of transition from the Whitebread American culture that dominated up to the Civil Rights Act to the diversified lineup that we see today. * I know that Russia is primarily in Asia, but the core of the culture (and, by extension, Colossus's family) originated in eastern Europe.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132303
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:17am | IP Logged | 2
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…they had an African (Storm)…•• I suppose it should be noted, for the sake of historical accuracy, that Chris and Dave retconned Ororo into an American. Born in Harlem, no less! (In 1951!!)
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Eric Smearman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 5798
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Never cared for that story. I preferred her as African-born.
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2824
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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Brian: Not to be contrary, but DC's Seraph, a back-up character and occasional co-star in Super Friends, predates Kitty Pryde. Kitty Pryde is certainly the highest profile Jewish character created to that point, however. Did JB create Seraph? Bc that's what the question was...
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Steve Ogden Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1263
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 12:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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Some folks might be interested in this publication; if they can find it. Excellent book on the subject. It was published in 1986 by The Balch Institute for Ethnic Studies.
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 7359
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 6
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If memory serves correctly, Golden Girl (as seen Steve's upload pic above) was the first 2nd-generation (nisei) Japanese-American superheroine that I know of...
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 7
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Per John's reply mentioning Ororo's birth in Harlem, I had forgotten that. What stuck in my mind was that she had spent most of her life from childhood up through the day she was contacted by Professor X to join the team (notwithstanding his having known about her since the Hidden Years guest appearance). When they first introduced her back in GSXM #1 in the mid-1970s, she was given all the stereotypical African attributes.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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Joel, I'm not certain to what question you're referring. Josh Goldberg's perhaps? His question refers back to JB's response to Wilson Mui's initial post in this thread. There, JB stated that he had created the first Jewish super-hero who was not a parody or a ret-con. Soon after, in response to Josh's question, he went on to confirm that hero was Kitty Pryde. I simply pointed out there was a prior claimant to the title of "first Jewish super-hero." The Seraph, created in 1977 by E. Nelson Bridwell and Ramona Fradon, is largely a footnote, and did not go on to greater recognition beyond a few back-up strips (wonderfully illustrated by Bob Oksner, as I recall) and appearances with the Global Guardians. Kitty, created in 1979 I believe, as a supporting character in the X-Men, had a higher profile, as well as the distinction of being Jewish without that being the entire point of her character as was the case with the Seraph, who was introduced as an international hero called upon to deal with a global crisis in a manner similar to Marvel's "Contest of Champions" characters. I do not know that the Seraph is in fact the first non-ret-con, non-parody Jewish super-hero ever. There may be others that predate him, but I can say that he predates Kitty.
Edited by Brian Hague on 28 November 2011 at 10:45pm
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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Bill, Roy Thomas has a history of making his titles racially diverse. Aside from including diverse characters into WWII settings, as he did with the Kid Commandoes shown above as well as the All-Star Squadron and Young All-Stars, he is, I believe, responsible for reconceiving the X-Men as an international team of "mutant Blackhawks," recruiting and training X-Men from all over the world.
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 7359
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Posted: 28 November 2011 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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Brian, I really liked those issues with the Kid Commandos. I also seem to remember there was a tie-in to the future (timeline-wise) Jimmy Woo of SHIELD backup stories (?) at the conclusion of the plot arc.
Edited by Bill Mimbu on 28 November 2011 at 11:13pm
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 29 November 2011 at 12:06am | IP Logged | 11
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Bill, that rings a bell with me as well. I also liked the way Thomas was able to bring in Thor and Dr. Doom to maintain ties to the then-current Marvel U. Continuity can be overdone, but Thomas seemed to strike the right balance with the Invaders, and since Thor is immortal and Doom can easily travel in time, the stories don't cry out for ret-cons or repairs to make them work for modern readers. Scanning the internet, it's interesting to note that no character lies fallow forever as the Davy Mitchell Human Top and Gwenny Lou Sabuki Golden Girl have ties to Citizen V, the Thunderbolts, and at least two (you should forgive the term in Davy's case) spin-off characters apiece.
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Bill Mimbu Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 7359
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Posted: 29 November 2011 at 12:24am | IP Logged | 12
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Did some checking... At the end of the story, Jimmy Woo's future nemesis, The Yellow Claw (and his grandniece Suwan) make an appearance. At the time, that was a wonderful surprise to see that touched upon as a wink toward the readers familiar with those stories.
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