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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 9:16am | IP Logged | 1
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Of course this is of interest to me since the bounty was in place when the Vikings met the Saints in their run to the Superbowl. We all remember Favre being bruised, battered and helped off the field. The accusations of dirty play came after, with the Saints denying it all. Now we find out that it was true, with a "bounty" that rewarded not only forced fumbles, interceptions and stops for no gain, but a "cart off" and "knockouts". If you ask me, this certainly taints the Saints over the last couple of years especially in light of the fact that owner Tom Benson, when informed of the bounty, told GM Mickey Loomis to discontinue it and yet it continued. Not only that, but Sean Payton knew of the bounty and did nothing to stop or discourage it. If you ask me, the Saints deserve some sort of punishment whether that's a fine, suspensions or draft picks.
Thoughts?
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Jason Mark Hickok
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 2
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I think the NFL is going to make an example of the Saints. Heavy fines and loss of draft picks. This kind of bounty thing is a slap in the face for an NFL that is trying to be safer and limit injuries.
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John Popa
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 3
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I think this will be pushed againt hard in the media but, deep down, I believe this sort of thing happens regularly all around the NFL, and will continue long after this scandal passes.
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Brad Teschner
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| Posted: 03 March 2012 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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This is just wrong! I get providing incentives for things like forced fumbles,
interceptions and stops for no gain, but rewarding injuries to other player???
That's just sick. These guys need to be punished HARD!
Reminds me of Charles Martin throwing Jim McMahon to the ground back in
'86. It was well after the play finished...Martin grabbed McMahon from
behind and threw him to the ground, separating his previously injured
shoulder and ending his season (and pretty much his career with the Bears).
During pre-game warm-ups, Martin displayed a white hand-towel with a list
of Bears offensive players' numbers, which he wore during the game. He
allegedly claimed that it was a hit-list.
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 5
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This is just wrong! I get providing incentives for things like forced fumbles,
interceptions and stops for no gain, but rewarding injuries to other player???
That's just sick. These guys need to be punished HARD!
---------------- Really hard, I bet. There's going to be a shockwave. I mean - they even have a rule against incentives for turnovers! That seems odd to me, but if you would punish incentives for turnovers, then causing injuries must be way beyong the pale. Draft picks, fines, suspensions, firings - it's all on the table. And James Harrison will not have the common sense to keep his mouth shut and his head down...
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Paulo Pereira
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 6
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Matt wrote:
| If you ask me, the Saints deserve some sort of punishment whether that's a fine, suspensions or draft picks. |
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I agree. I have nothing against defenders trying to get the ball, but injuring players is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 7
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The difference between the Saints and the other 31 teams in the league? They were openly talking about it and got caught. This is not to say I agree with the bounties, but this is the norm in football, not just the NFL. In most cases, the coaching staff either does not know, isn't in the loop, or just turns a blind eye to it. In this cases, the coaches knew and encouraged it. I think Gregg Williams' job might be in jeopardy here, at the very least he'll be fined heavily and probably suspended for a long time.
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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Kevin: There's a big difference between saying "take out _____" and saying "take out ___ and get $1000". The Saints were doing it systematically. They institutionalized it.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 9
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There's also a big difference between players quietly doing it among themselves so as not to get caught and a "bounty program" sanctioned by not only the defensive coordinator but, by not putting a stop to it, the head coach and GM as well.
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Jason Mark Hickok
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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Very true. This was known by all involved and it kept going. I really think the NFL is going to do enough to send a message that this is not the way to do things.
I love hard hitting but keep it as clean as possible. I mean that is what the D is for. To hit hard and to keep the other team from scoring.
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Matt Reed
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 1:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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Agreed. Hard hitting to stop advancement of the ball and/or scoring = good. Awarding a bounty placed on a player's head sanctioned by everyone but the owner, with the highest amount of money going to either knocking a player out or resulting in them being carted off = bad. Interestingly enough, Tony Dungy claimed in an article written several years ago that the first of Peyton's neck injuries was the direct result of an especially brutal hit by two defensive players for the Redskins. The defensive coordinator for the 'skins at the time? Gregg Williams.
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Brad Brickley
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 1:42pm | IP Logged | 12
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Now with stories coming out that it happened in Washington too, this thing could get real ugly. I wonder how many other teams have a program like this?
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Robert Bradley
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 13
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With pending litigation over player concussions the league is not about to let anyone come out and say they were lenient in a case like this. They're going to stick it to the Saints and any other team they feel had bounties on players.
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 04 March 2012 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 14
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I think I may have figured out a possible reason why incentives aren't allowed for turnovers - imagine players taking uneccessary risks instead of defending a pass, or fighting with their own teammates over a loose ball - or two defenders running into each other trying to get an interception.
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Jason Mark Hickok
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 15
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I listened to the debate today about what was worse Spygate or Bountygate? Initially and my first reaction was Spygate. Cheating is a direct slap in the face to the game.
The more I thought about it I am leaning the other way. If anyone was injured to the point of ending their career because of a bounty program that, to me, automatically makes it worse.
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 16
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According to Mike Golic and Darren Woodson on ESPN's site, payouts for performance were common, although they didn't make the kind of money that NO players were.
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Craig Markley
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| Posted: 05 March 2012 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 17
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It would be interesting if the IRS would step in and gather a list of those players who collected sizeable amounts of money from the bounties.
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 06 March 2012 at 2:16pm | IP Logged | 18
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Interesting article here: LINK. It's not a new thing nor is it just the Saints who do.... er, did it.
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Ryan Maxwell
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| Posted: 06 March 2012 at 3:09pm | IP Logged | 19
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The new Raiders coach was a defensive assistant in NO at the time, I wonder if this will reach Oakland in any way.
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Neil Lindholm
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| Posted: 06 March 2012 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 20
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I don't know American Football, but is it actually illegal to do this, is it in the rule book, or is it just immoral?
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Kevin Hagerman
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| Posted: 06 March 2012 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 21
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Yes, Neil, it's against league policy, but the main incriminating factor is the degree to which the Saints violated the rule. Randy Moss worked out with the Saints today. However serious the infraction, I think making them sign Moss is a BIT of an extreme punishment!
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Neil Lindholm
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| Posted: 06 March 2012 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 22
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Was it a rule initially or was it brought in as a rule in the past due to a prior incident?
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Brian Floyd
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| Posted: 07 March 2012 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 23
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They should be forced to sign Randy Moss and T.O. to no trade, no release contracts through the 2014 season.
Hell, make em take Albert Haynesworth, too!
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Robert Bradley
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| Posted: 08 March 2012 at 1:15am | IP Logged | 24
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Neil there have been other instances like this in the past and the league has had a rule against them for as long as I can recall, but this is the first time that a coach has come out and admitted to it.
Usually what you'll see is a small pot among players for things like the first interception in a game or the first sack of the quarterback or the first fumble forced or touchdown made, but the league has always been opposed to "bounties" on players like this, in no small part I imagine due to liability issues. They are in the middle of a firestorm of criticism and several lawsuits over how they've handled player concussions in the past and they don't want to look like they they're unconcerned about player health.
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 08 March 2012 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 25
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They should be forced to sign Randy Moss and T.O. to no trade, no release contracts through the 2014 season.
Hell, make em take Albert Haynesworth, too! ********************************************* With Mike Martz running the offense.
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Topic Closed)
