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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 1706
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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Great drawing; love to see a full book of this encounter. And is it just
a coincidence that this comes out during "HulK Smashes the Avengers"
series by DeFalco this month?
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Stephen Bergstrom
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Joined: 18 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 451
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's been said many times before, but seeing JB draw these really makes me miss these versions of the characters...
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Philippe Pinoli
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Joined: 03 September 2004
Location: France
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 3
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Hulk's left hand (especially thumb's nail) is just perfect.
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Michael Hogan
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1351
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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While Cap's shield is on my mind, I'll ask this:
Since the shield absorbs impacts, why does it ricochet off had targets (walls and such)? I always assumed it was for dramatic effect, ignoring the kinetics, but has it ever been explained?
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Garry Porter II
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Joined: 07 February 2011
Posts: 328
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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A friend who also saw the Avengers movie yesterday insisted on explaining to me why the costumes "had to be" changed. Why Thor, especially, could not wear the "simple" costume Kirby designed. As I was drawing this piece, Thor in particular, I once again found myself asking "Why not?"
..
This (at least concept-wise) got me to thinking about how nowadays, movie studio execs and comic writers and especially editors, do not believe in the source material when converting said material to the sliver screen.
An example of this is when the editors at Marvel, in the last 10 years or so, justify tampering or "changing" the source material, just to make movies. Take the Avengers for example. I think creators like how Marvel movie studio execs pick and prod certain things from Avengers 1 and use other things form other points in the extensive Avengers history, all to make an Avengers movie for "modern" audiences.
Another example of this was when a few years back, I read where a creator once commented on how he liked what Sam Raimi did with the first Spider-man movie.
The creator was making the point that just telling a full on movie just based off of Spider-Man's origin and first appearance, i.e. using Amazing Fantasy appearances of the character(or the first full on /Spider-Man story) would have made for a really bad(or boring) movie.
And, I thought: Why can't Spider-Man's first story and appearance(Amazing Fantasy?) be told strictly as is, in movie form..and be a good movie at that?
JB's statement about how his friend "explained" why Thor's costume needed to be changed made me think of this.
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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Captain America's shield just needs to have a super power that works like magic because it does.
An "Absorb and disperse" theory opens a big can of worms if it is used for more than just a quick line here and there.
Otherwise you get into complicated questions about whether Captain America's shield needs to absorb some energy but then "turn off" that effect at times to behave as it does.
If it just absorbs energy then it can't knock people down or bounce off of things. It just stops whatever collides with it if it is stationary and it just stops if it is moving. And if it absorbs a force then there is no reaction or rebound because the action that causes the reaction is removed from the system. So punching the shield would just make your fist stop with no scuffed knuckles or anything. Hitting someone with the shield wouldn't hurt them. The shield would just stop. Throwing the shield would have it stop and fall and not bounce when it encountered any object.
Maybe you could say that the shield diverts and disperses forces in some sort of active way that let's it decide what happens when a force hits it. Throw it at a bad guy's jaw? HIT. Bring it up in front of a tank gun? Disperse every thing over the lethal threshold and throw the wielder back with the remainder to show how powerful the blow was.
And you don't want to worry about the shield softening, or deforming at various points or changing its structure and composition or heating up, or vibrating to disperse the forces either. You don't want to worry about how it disperses or de-absorbs forces. You don't want to worry about how the incoming angles to the shield affect absorption/dispersion where maybe a force orthogonal to the curve of the shield (dead on) behaves differently that one that is almost parallel to the curve of the shield (parallel would be a miss).
It gets silly fast when you think about it. Firm rules are bad if they lead to derivatives that won't work the way the writer/artist wants them to.
Lately there is an urge to update the old explanations. where writers want to abandon radioactivity, mystery alloys, magnets, blood transfusions, ions, and transistors, and the go-to mysterious transformative enablers that people have heard of.
I think the best pop-sci idea we have for a current (non WW2) explanation for the shields and is that it is made of self-regulating nano-machines that constantly reconfigure themselves according to instructions from Captain America perhaps programmed through biofeedback that is good enough to guess what he wants by observing him.
Even then we have jerks who will wonder why if it can change its structure to simulate various composites and materials it doesn't change shape enough to become a helmet or armor or if he can use it to pick any lock or otherwise radically change its shape. Or can he make it change color and luster? Can he make it turn invisible and use it for camouflage? Can he use it to display words and symbols? Can he make it like a mirror?
Details generally lead to trouble.
Edited by Emery Calame on 05 May 2012 at 3:55pm
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Garry Porter II
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think the best idea we have for a current (non WW2) explanation for the shields is that it is made of nano-machines that constantly reconfigure themselves according to instructions from Captain America.
..
Wow, this type of thinking really does not sound like Cap or his shield to me. But, I do understand the thought process.
Emery, Is this train of thought currently in the comics? Has this train of thought become canon to explain Cap's shield? And if so, what titles is this explanation in besides the Captain America title?
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Jason Mark Hickok
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Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8989
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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Fantastic! Beautiful work, JB!
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4863
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 9
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"Emery, Is this train of thought currently in the comics? Has this train of thought become canon to explain Cap's shield? And if so, what titles is this explanation in besides the Captain America title?"
Comics and movies ARE experimenting more current explanations for things. Iron man is now about fictional Arc-reactor (ark reactor?) tech as it's foundation tech instead of arrays of transistors or Stark-tech IC's. The comics also fell in love with liquid metals and all kinds of those stuff to explain the armor not acting like a rigid metal sheath as the first version of the armor was. Movie Spider-man is now a result of a genetically modified designed super-spider-bite instead of a random spider bite from an irradiated spider. Banner is now a specially bred/modified human or was experimenting with healing steroids along with "gamma energy" which is no longer quite exactly associated with gamma rays.
Captain America's shield is not nano-machines yet but it is already being described as more than some mere inert mysterious super-alloy and people have gotten into trouble trying to explain how he can do complex boomerang throws with it apart from "he is like a ninja and can do that because he learned how". There were magnets are one point and radio control at one point I think.
Like I said the more you worry about how the shield works the further you get from it being a cool prop that makes stories cool. It blocks attacks, is thrown and it busts people up, and it can stop huge huge lows and blasts. That's what you need. You get beyond that one thing leads to another and you get weird power creep and silly expansions of the original concept such as "the Danger Room is angry":
If you can accept the Silver Surfer's board as this ineffable thing that simply does what it does because "Galactus" then why get upset about how the shield is supposed to work ?
If people insist on an explanation then probably nano-machines is the best way to go... IF they ignore other stuff associated with nano machines (forming virtually ANYTHING) and just make these nano-machines want to be shaped a shield that does whatever it takes to fly true and stop deadly forces from killing the wielder in an automated and controlled but not sentient fashion.
Originally in the golden Age the shield was just there to be bulletproof and otherwise a pretty normal shield apart from being throwable in the right hands.
Edited by Emery Calame on 05 May 2012 at 5:14pm
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Wallace Sellars
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13170
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 5:27pm | IP Logged | 10
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Since the shield absorbs impacts, why does it ricochet off had targets (walls
and such)?
—
I just assumed that when hurled or swung, the edges of the shield impacted
other objects in a more ordinary fashion. That explanation is satisfying
enough for me.
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Emery Calame
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 4863
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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A friend has informed that me that the shield got broken again in the "Fear Itself" crossover and was reforged with URU metal in it. Oy vey.
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Michael Hogan
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Posts: 1351
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 12
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Hey, I'm more than happy to accept "Because it does." as a full explanation.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7761
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 13
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Wonderful piece.
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Michael Arndt
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Joined: 26 April 2004
Posts: 7575
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 14
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Great commission, JB. Love the way all the characters are interacting.
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Andy Mokler
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Joined: 20 January 2006
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 15
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Q for JB: have you talked about the (im)practicality of drawing in this scale? Specifically for a monthly book I mean. Is it just too time-consuming to warrant practical use?
The shrinking down effect that you get with these large pieces is very enjoyable to me and I assume I'd like it as a comic book if you decided to work in this size.
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Jeffrey Rice
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Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 179
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 16
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Wow! Incredible inks and my favorite style Hulk!!
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Wallace Sellars
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Location: United States
Posts: 13170
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 7:45pm | IP Logged | 17
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Hey, I'm more than happy to accept "Because it does." as a full
explanation.
---
Even better!
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Benny Hasa
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Joined: 12 January 2011
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 18
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The Hulk is the standout for me and reminds me that JB draws a great Hulk. Hope to see more commissions with him. With the film and this commission, it's a good week to be an Avengers fan.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 8:46pm | IP Logged | 19
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On the question of drawing this size for regular comicbook pages -- well, a 20x30inch piece is four times the size of a normal page, and takes AT LEAST four times longer to draw. (The sheer awkwardness of manipulating a sheet that size can be time consuming all by itself.). So it's not exactly practical to draw a whole comic this big!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 20
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Is that Rick Jones...?••• Well it ain't Snapper Carr!
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Flavio Sapha
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: 05 May 2012 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 21
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I only see the textures in this one! Hulk's rough hide and Iron Man's
metallic sheen never looked better!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 22
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…Hulk's rough hide…•• When the Hulk gets this large in an image, I find I have to start piling on the textures, or he gets to looking like the Pillsbury Dough Boy!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 23
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Hulk's left hand (especially thumb's nail) is just perfect.•• I've mentioned before that someone up at Marvel -- I think it was Al Milgrom -- once commented that there's really no excuse for drawing hands badly, since most people have at least one on the end of each arm. It does surprise me, sometimes, how many artists, especially in comics, seem not to take advantage of this fact. Seem not to just look at their own hands, when drawing hands. When drawing someone making a fist, for instance, what could be easier than to MAKE A FIST, and LOOK at it? Yet, so often, fists are drawn as basically square blocks. Flat across the face, flat across the bottom. Yet that's not how they work, is it? When someone makes a fist, the fingers curve around the base of the thumb, so the index finger is further forward than the pinkie. The knuckle of the index finger tends to poke forward, too.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 24
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Originally in the golden Age the shield was just there to be bulletproof and otherwise a pretty normal shield apart from being throwable in the right hands.•• Shortly after his return, Stan and Jack gave us this scene with Cap in THE AVENGERS… 
Later, it was decided that Cap's shield should not be so "high tech", and his ability to throw it with such skill was based on precisely that, skill, not magnetic manipulations. So the above was retconned away as a "spare" shield Iron Man had modified. Notice that giving the shield a thick edge seems to have really confused the colorist on the second page! (Historic Note: This is an example of where Stan seems to have written something other than what Jack drew. From Iron Man's pose on the splash, I get the impression he's INSTRUCTING Cap on the use of the new shield, not merely being impressed by how well the good Captain handles it. Probably Stan didn't like the idea of Cap needing instruction from anybody! The dialog in the first few panels of the next page seems not to really fit the pictures either.)
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Matt Hawes
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| Posted: 06 May 2012 at 6:28am | IP Logged | 25
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AWESOME commission!!!
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