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Topic: New Book: "Superman: The High-Flying History...etc" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 1  

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/18/155278330/its-a-bird-its-a-pla ne-its-a-new-superman-bio


Here's an excerpt available for preview via Amazon: "...That is where Byrne got into trouble. He rebuilt the mythology not just around the edges but at its core, changing what not just fans but fellow mythmakers thought should be immutable." 

Among those with quoted criticisms, are Mark Waid, Elliot Maggin, and (according to the author the "most piercing") from Len Wein. 

"Byrne, many fans agreed, had gone too far.  He forgot that the key to Superman is that he is like us even though he isn't us. He isn't human but is a shining example for everyone who is. Sometimes it takes an alien to show us what is special about ourselves, or what could be if we really tried. The Last Kryptonian's greatest powers are his mind and heart, which are why baby boomers embrace him as much as the greatest generation did."
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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 2  

Sounds like criticism that would be valid unless you actually read JB's stories.

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Ben Mcvay
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:20pm | IP Logged | 3  

Is that "beat up" look actually going to be the way the dust jacket for this book is?
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Valmor J. Pedretti
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:22pm | IP Logged | 4  

That cover would suggest me that the character is all about muscles.
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Ryan Maxwell
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:25pm | IP Logged | 5  

Funny, I read JB's Superman.  Kansas farm boy with all-American values he got from his adopted parents, right?  Pretty sure that was him.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 6  

Sounds like another ax-grinding op-ed piece masquerading as a history of comics/Superman.

If the topic of Superman's "history" is to be discussed at book length, then I'm not surprised that this particular chapter will be painted in the most melodramatic light. What's a good story without a badguy?
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Jason Mark Hickok
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:42pm | IP Logged | 7  

Yep, sounds like a big ol pass for me.
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Lars Johansson
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 8  

The book it seems says more about the authors of that book than it says about Superman and John Byrne. If it is about Superman staff who are "attacking" each other, that trend started after the electric Superman became a flop, long after JB had left Superman.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 9  

zzzz-zzzzzzzzzzzz
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 10  

Or to put that another way....

Superman's publishing history is 75 years old, next year. My contribution was about 2 years worth. Virtually no trace of it remains. And these guys are still harping on it 25 years later?

Get. A. Life.

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Jozef Brandt
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 11  


They're still pissed that it sold so well and was such a big deal.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 12  

In this book, 23 pages mention "Byrne." 

How many mention "Boring"? 6. 
How many mention "Swan"? 6. 
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Dave Aikins
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 13  

pfftp.  I loved it. I was 13 when the Byrne Superman "era" started. Worked just fine for me. I think that was the only period in my life when I actually bought Superman comics on a monthly level. 

about 2 years worth...

but that was back when 13-year olds read super hero comics.


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Ben Mcvay
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 14  

How many mention "Swan"? 6. 
***
That is some bullshit.
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 15  


Or to put that another way....

Superman's publishing history is 75 years old, next year. My contribution was about 2 years worth. Virtually no trace of it remains. And these guys are still harping on it 25 years later?

Get. A. Life.

***********

SER: It's hard sometimes to determine what annoys me most about the complaints regarding JB's Superman run.

Let's see:

1) As JB mentions, we're talking about 2 years out of 75... and none of the changes were unalterable. Frank Miller is still praised for restoring Batman to his "dark" roots (forgetting the O'Neil, Adams, Robbins work) when JB's Superman also returned to his roots in many ways. I expect life to be unfair. People have different tastes. It's OK to prefer DARK KNIGHT and YEAR ONE to MAN OF STEEL but you can't blast one for things the other, much-hailed one did.

2) The idea that Clark Kent's powers are Kryptonian but his heart and heroism are uniquely "human" or even "American" because of his upbringing says "Superman" to me more than the idea that "Superman" is Kryptonian and "Clark Kent" is a human mask... but essentially a form of "blackface," because he's clumsy and ineffectual. Sort of insult to Jonathan Kent.

3) The insistence that Superman's "core concept" is the Silver Age version is to more or less say that Superman is Weisenger creation and not Siegel and Shuster. I thought the JB version took the best of every era and made the character relevant for the '80s but still timeless.

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Valmor J. Pedretti
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 16  

I wonder if the author heard people who actually commented it as only a reader, and not as a "fellow creator".




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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 2:58pm | IP Logged | 17  

Looks like a waste of tree pulp based on the excerpts of lopsided opinion. A more interesting book would be to examine the changes made to the character and how he was presented throughout the 75 years of his existence. That would be a book I would buy. Understanding how the character has been influenced through he years as well as adopted as a symbol is far more interesting to me than the opinion of the "fans that agree". I care not for the opinion of people that think Andy Helfer and DC published a bad comic mini series and wish to blame the person paid to create it decades later. Call me fickle!!
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 18  

As JB mentions, we're talking about 2 years out of 75... and none of the changes were unalterable. Frank Miller is still praised for restoring Batman to his "dark" roots (forgetting the O'Neil, Adams, Robbins work) when JB's Superman also returned to his roots in many ways. I expect life to be unfair. People have different tastes. It's OK to prefer DARK KNIGHT and YEAR ONE to MAN OF STEEL but you can't blast one for things the other, much-hailed one did.

••

I enjoyed THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and BATMAN: YEAR ONE, but neither were without traces of the snarky ennui that would come, in the following years, more and more to typify how superhero comics are handled. Consider Batman's comment, in DKR, that the Batmobile was named by Dick, and it was "the sort of name a kid would come up with." Consider Superman as a government stooge, also in DKR. And, of course, consider the walloping great impact of WATCHMEN, which both Frank and I read in xerox form as the pages came into the office. There is an abrupt turn in Frank's story, about halfway thru, as Batman suddenly migrates into something very much akin to the WATCHMEN "universe".

It was early days, but DKR and YO had the beginnings of the prerequisite SNEER. MAN OF STEEL did not.

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Tim O'Neill
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 19  


I don't understand the Superman rage that JB has received.  The most imbalanced trolls who attack the forum all seem to have the same thing in common:  this weird grudge against JB for his work on Superman.

For me, DC was a wasteland of cornball crap until JB did his take on Superman, Wonder Woman, and Jack Kirby's Fourth World.  JB opened the door to the DC universe for me, and I am very grateful.


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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 20  

I don't understand the Superman rage that JB has received. The most imbalanced trolls who attack the forum all seem to have the same thing in common: this weird grudge against JB for his work on Superman.

••

Superman had changed many times over the years, but the changes had always been slow and subtle, so that one had to stand back and survey a decade at a time in order to spot them. (The main exception to this would be his power of flight, I suppose, which originated in the Fleischer cartoons, and was quickly adopted by the comics.)

DC's decision to do a REBOOT, rather than a story arc (which is what I planned originally) drew a distinct line upon which the more anal and whiny "fans" could focus. This was not something that had been done before. And, of course, the greatest crime, as I have noted before, was that it wiped the slate clean, so long-time readers who had memorized every jot and tittle had no claim to higher ground than a brand new reader.

DC had relaunched Superman in the 70s, with the "Kryptonite No More" story, but it had been done "in continuity". Fans who could convince themselves there was a "break" in Superman's history that allowed some of the stories to be on "Earth 1" and some on "Earth 2" (even tho there was absolutely no textual evidence to support this) had no trouble accepting another "in continuity" divergence. MAN OF STEEL didn't allow them that excuse.

Still, as I have said many times, if I could somehow go back and unring that bell, I would do so in an instant. When I signed on to do the project, having submitted to DC a detailed outline of what I planned to do, and having had that outline fully approved by the Powers that Were, I had no idea I would basically be double-crossed at the first whiff of negative fan reaction -- coming MONTHS before even so much as a line of the first issue had been drawn! DC, I realized too late, wanted to have their cake and eat it, too. They wanted to "reboot" Superman -- and keep everything exactly the same. Still not sure how they imagined that could have been accomplished!!

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Robert Cosgrove
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 21  

There was an extensive review of the book--mild pan, I'd say, but you could come down on the side of faint praise--in Saturday's Wall Street Journal.
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Jason Mark Hickok
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 22  

I am with, Tim. I was never a huge reader of DC with just Flash and Green Lantern as regular pick ups. JB being on Superman was amazing to me. Loved it! This led me to JLA and starting to read Batman. 

JB on Wonder Woman and Fourth World opened another part of DC for me. Wonderful work.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 23  

I too will openly admit that DC was of no interest to me at a young age until Man of Steel. I picked it up and loved it mostly because I am a fan of The Chief. Several friends tried to convince me to pick up a few books, but listening to them attempt to explain Crisis made me stay away. It took JB's MoS to make me buy my first DC comic book.
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Jason Mark Hickok
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 24  

Forgot about TITANS. There was that Perez fella working on it!
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 18 June 2012 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 25  

Gotta say I didn't run into any fans who thought Byrne had gone too far. Everyone knew was excited over Man of Steel. "Superman done right" was the usual sentiment. 
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