Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum Page of 10 Next >>
Topic: Superhero Fashions (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132137
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 1  

The image of Hawkeye sporting a black T and sunglasses, in another thread, crystalized for me something that has been perking in the back of my brain for a while. Quite a long while, really.

Traditionally, superhero costumes have not been about FASHION. Look at Superman in 1938, in 1956, in 1987, and there is nothing in his costume that tells you the date it was designed. The style of the art might, but subtract that -- imagine Neal Adams drawing the Superman from the cover of SUPERMAN 1 -- and there is nothing "fashionable" about the suit. Same for any of the Golden and Silver Age character.

Spider-Man wore a costume that sprang from Steve Ditko's imagination, not the pages of some recent fashion magazine. Ditto the X-Men -- costumes from Jack Kirby's mind, not K-Mart.

That's where modern costume design -- if I dare call it that -- runs off the rails. Big boots, gloves, T-shirts, jackets, coats, sunglasses, etc. These are OUTFITS, not COSTUMES. And, in many cases, rather than giving the character an individualized look, they create a kind of sameness. They look like they could have just walked in off the street, so many times.

Which means, of course, that they are almost instantly out of date. Superman's costume is timeless. But the street-clothes influenced "costumes" reflect this week, and will be antique by next.

(Altho, go to a comic con, and see acres of fans who wear the same clothes ALL THE TIME, so maybe that's the appeal. There's no fashion sense there, so how can something look out of fashion?)

Back to Top profile | search
 
Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 2  

Those old costumes are timeless, as you said, and the other word that comes to my mind is "elegant." Costumes like Gil Kane's Green Lantern, Ditko's Dr. Strange, and so many others, are so perfect that I don't see any way they can be improved.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132137
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 3  

Green Lantern had one of the strangest odesseys of costume design -- really going crazy when the members of the Corps started wearing individualized "uniforms".

STAR TREK TOS again. The original, created by guys who understood military thinking. Later iterations, not so much.

Green Lantern Corps, created by guys who understood military thinking. Later iterations. . .

Back to Top profile | search
 
Barry Maine
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 06 June 2012
Posts: 152
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 4  

I think it is a challenge when we look at the times we
live in They are certainly different and the Millennials
have been brought up that fashion matters. We have TV
channels dedicated to it. The term "Fashion Week" is a
part of civilian lexicon and not just an industry term.
Top TV shows are dedicated to clothing. Unfortunately,
because interests have become so diverse, audiences of a
particular thing are just as diverse.

We now live in a world where Tim Gunn gets to comment on
Super Hero fashion and who "wins". My latest Every Day
with Rachel Ray magazine had an article on super hero
diets that included how many calories Peter and Bruce and
so on must consume each day as well as a sample of what
they would eat. And other completely unrelated sources
are using super heroes to publish as well.

We are no longer the "superhero geeks" that had to stay
home on a Friday night. Now we are invited to the party.
But, like any social situation, we have to exchange
interests.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1731
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 5  

Yeah, you are absolutely correct John.  I was just reading Jack Kirby talking about the design of Thor's costume and how it could have been from 1000 years ago or be from 1000 years from now.  He said that was how he designed it.  He used the word timeless too.

Aaron GL and Dr. Strange had perfect costumes; the FF too.  I think the most Kirby changed their costumes was Sue's hairstyles ( ! ).


Edited by Brennan Voboril on 06 July 2012 at 3:28pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12409
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 4:23pm | IP Logged | 6  

Nietzsche said, when you dress for others you are merely fashionable -- but when you dress for yourself you have... style!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Tony Centofanti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 212
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 7  

It's been brewing since the late 1980s. Take a look at Claremont's X-Men run before Jim Lee takes over with his "whiz-bang" action. Most of the X-Men are not wearing costumes, except Wolverine and Dazzler. Hell, look at the famed Art Adams annuals. The X-Men barely appear in costume in those.

It's just a motif, it'll cycle back to proper costumes eventually, if I'd hazard a guess.

P.S. If the fans hadn't demanded the F.F. have costumes, it's entirely possible they'd just have been wearing clothes, and the occasional jump-suit I bet.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Valmor J. Pedretti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 October 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 786
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 8  

I've been struggling for a few days with a self challenge of redesigning a proper costume to a character which I invented a long ago.

My first attempts had too much of a "modern looking" feel and I've been trying to do my best to make it simpler and make it work. I had been avoiding for a while the character's name and powers as an influence on the design, but seems more logical to me now.

The recurrent talks on this forum on this subject are helping a lot for sure. So I thank you all. ;-)

It's so easy designing a cluttered costume. But a simple timeless one, that is for the masters.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 5:41pm | IP Logged | 9  

The changes to Superman's costume, especially in the upcoming movie, point to people just not "getting" it. Nowhere in the comics -- well, I haven't read the recently -- imply that the costume is "alien." The Donner film presented it as such but that can also be seen as necessary shorthand (because the costume itself still looked like the original).

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132137
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 10  

We are no longer the "superhero geeks" that had to stay home on a Friday night. Now we are invited to the party. But, like any social situation, we have to exchange interests.

••

If by "we" you mean people who READ comics, we are still not "invited to the party". Well, maybe if we read Graphic Novels. But, as we all know, Graphic Novels are just NEVER about superheroes.

Superheroes ARE, however, in big budget movies, and that makes them Kool and Okay -- for as long as the fad lasts.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132137
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 11  

If the fans hadn't demanded the F.F. have costumes…

••

I confess to having long been doubtful that it was really "fan demand" that put the FF in costumes. If Stan and Jack were working on a realistic schedule back then, issue three would have been started, and likely even finished, before issue one went on sale.

I suspect that "Because You Demanded It" approach was an early version of Stan's "inclusionist" approach.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Valmor J. Pedretti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 14 October 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 786
Posted: 06 July 2012 at 6:48pm | IP Logged | 12  

On a Justice League documentary, Stan talks about the FF being this attempt of matching DC's successful rediscovery of super heroes and then Len Wein theorizes that in case it didn't work, the excuse could be "Hey, The Thing, it's a monster story like we have always done!".
Back to Top profile | search | www
 

Page of 10 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login