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Glenn Brown Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2903
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 1
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I always thought that John channeled Terry Austin in his inks on this issue. Great, classic stuff.
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Mike Benson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 402
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 2
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I still chuckle at Ben covering his eyes as Sue becomes visible.
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Jesus Garcia Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 April 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1947
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 3
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Wow. And the inks DO look a little Austin. 30 years ago, and it's still thrilling to look at. Especially the classic Kirby touches like suddenly, without reason, showing us an outside shot of where everybody is with word balloons to show the continuity in the conversation. Kirby used to do that with planets, or solar systems! Also, Ben's visual sense of humor like dressing up as Idaho Smith. A reference that -- while contemporary -- people would still get today. No wonder people (myself included) refer to this FF Byrne effort as second only to Lee and Kirby.
Edited by Jesus Garcia on 16 August 2012 at 7:14pm
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Wallace Sellars Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 13170
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 4
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That issue looks even better in black and white than it does in color!
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 7974
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 7:30pm | IP Logged | 5
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Those pages are filled with amazing energy and inspiration. You can feel a real love for the craft and characters in every panel.
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Steve Gumm Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 807
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 6
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The crazy amount of detail, really gives it an epic movie-like feel. The detail seems so amazingly true, that your mind kicks in and puts you in that environment. You stop being a guy just looking at a picture and you go on the adventure too! That's why I love JB's work... that and mudball Thing.
Edited by Steve Gumm on 16 August 2012 at 7:44pm
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Michael Todd Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 07 September 2009 Location: United States Posts: 4115
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 7
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I can't believe that Ben peeked at Suzie.
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Mike Benson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 04 January 2010 Location: United States Posts: 402
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| Posted: 16 August 2012 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | 8
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Ben's peek is charming. And when's the last time you could say that about a scene in a comic book?
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Brad Hague Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 December 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1440
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 9
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To me, THIS issue is a great one to demonstrate to me the absolute HEIGHT of comic art and storytelling. This was the zenith. From FF #232 to about 260, nothing was better than this. I know people move on and change. But for me, THIS is the pinnacle! Bravo Chief for having done such amazing work! It's too bad the world no longer appreciates this as it once did.
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Steve Gumm Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 10 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 807
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Here's a page that would be a throw away page, if drawn by most any other artist... captives being taking up on an elevator:
My comment left on the page: Have you ever seen an elevator look cooler?!? Byrne is on fire during this issue, pun intended ; ) Check out the top panel, the jungle landscape is lush and so well drawn. I love how, in the dark areas, he'd draw a foreground layer of leaves in white paint. Artists pay attention, JB's teaching a master class in these pages!
Edited by Steve Gumm on 17 August 2012 at 5:38am
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John Byrne
Next!
Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87181
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 6:00am | IP Logged | 11
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The crazy amount of detail, really gives it an epic movie-like feel.•• You know, I might be inclined to argue that my current work has more actually detail. Back when I did this story, I used to draw what I called "argle-bargle", lots of meaningless lines that added up to the illusion of something. Now, that is not a criticism of the old stuff. Clearly, when we look at a story like this, we can see that the "argle-bargle" works, but as an artist I find the current work more personally satisfying, as when I draw, say, a control panel, or some elaborate machine, the details are actually there, not "suggested". This may lead to there being fewer lines on the page, but there doesn't need to be as many, since they're not there to "fool" the eye.
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1221
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 6:22am | IP Logged | 12
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Still, that jungle panorama at the bottom of page five... holy cow. That IS drawing.
Also, the fact that the story moves fast enough without feeling rushed at all that we get to that scene by the bottom of the fifth page, with one of the previous pages being a full splash, is kind of mind-blowing.
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Jeff Patterson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 January 2006 Location: United States Posts: 146
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 13
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The second page has a story-telling tool that only works in comics: cutting to an establishing shot of the setting midway through the scene.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5013
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 14
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The original art for this issue looks MUCH better than the printed version - I recall many of JB's early FF issues looking extremely muddy due to the poor printing process of the time.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 5117
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 15
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Looking at this artwork again I realize a couple of thing about JB's progression over the years. One, he doesn't draw cast shadows as often as he used to. And two, man has he gotten better at drawing faces and heads. The heads here aren't bad, it's just the ones he draws now are that much better.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87181
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 16
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One, he doesn't draw cast shadows as often as he used to.•• In my opinion, two of the best "shadowcasters" in the Biz were Jack Kirby and Wally Wood. Kirby's approach was stylized -- the shadows he drew rarely, if ever, had very much to do with the shape of whatever it was casting the shadows. Worked for him, tho! Wood, on the other had, seemed to possess a mutant power that allowed him to draw his characters casting realistic shadows, shadows that actually looked like what you'd expect given the shape of the object. I've not been much of a fan of my own cast shadows, over the years, so I have mostly tended to leave 'em out. I would, however, suggest that my characters are MORE inclined these days to cast shadows than they were in the days of this issue of FF.
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Steven Legge Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 28 July 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 170
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 17
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Fantagraphics is releasing a collection of Wood's EC work in the fall Looks like most of the same stuff as in the IDW artist edition, but regular sized and affordable to the point that my wife won't kill me if I buy it.
I wish someone would re-release the Kirby/Wood Sky Masters stuff!
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Ed Love Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2326
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 18
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It was these type of FF stories that made me want to see JB do a Doc Savage comic. Just don't get comic stories like this anymore. Part of what I loved was the use of the Marvel U., all on model and in ways that make sense for the stories. In one issue we have the Black Panther, Dum Dum Dugan and Nick Fury. That's how you use continuity!
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 5117
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 19
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It was these type of FF stories that made me want to see JB do a Doc Savage comic.
==== No kidding. When I pointed out that bottom panel on page 5, Doc Savage and his boys were the first thing that crossed my mind. In fact, after rereading the issue, you could just about swap out characters and make this an awesome Doc Savage comic.
The only time I've ever seen a JB drawn Doc was from a fanzine from about 35+ years ago.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 4245
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| Posted: 17 August 2012 at 11:43pm | IP Logged | 20
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The FF at ease with one another, joking and operating in top form. So many creative teams have felt the need to change the team's dynamic in order to create friction or drama. The need to alter the line-up because everything that could be done apparently already has, or simply "to keep things interesting." Here, that ongoing illusion of change is present with a new member and the Thing's altered form, yet the core spirit, purpose, and joie de vie of the team has never been more on-model and alive. There really is a right way and a wrong way of doing this book.
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Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 5117
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| Posted: 18 August 2012 at 1:29am | IP Logged | 21
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There really is a right way and a wrong way of doing this book.
====== For a book that should be so simple, too many writers approach it from a wrong direction.
IMO, Some made it a family drama book with some action in it. Others looked at it as a superhero book and just didn't make it smart enough. I've always liked the approach that it's a science fiction/ adventure book where there is a family dynamic and they happen to have superpowers and hang around superheroes. If the science fiction/ adventure aspect isn't the foundation with everything else adding flair to make the book unique, it just doesn't work for me.
I have three runs on the book I really love, Stan and Jack's, JB's, and Waid/ Wieringo's.
Walt Simonson's run was cool but it is booked ended on either side with some subpar FF so it gets lost in my rereads. The Hickman/Eaglesham run is better than it has been, but I find the stories a bit drawn out longer than they need to be. It at least seems to approach it from the right dynamic.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 87181
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| Posted: 18 August 2012 at 5:15am | IP Logged | 22
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Someone up at Marvel once declared the FF to be comics' "premiere dysfunctional family" and many have chosen to play them that way ever since.Which totally misses the point.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10029
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| Posted: 18 August 2012 at 8:03am | IP Logged | 23
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IMO, Some made it a family drama book with some action in it. Others looked at it as a superhero book and just didn't make it smart enough. I've always liked the approach that it's a science fiction/ adventure book where there is a family dynamic and they happen to have superpowers and hang around superheroes. If the science fiction/ adventure aspect isn't the foundation with everything else adding flair to make the book unique, it just doesn't work for me.
*** I've always though that the Fantastic Four is the perfect combination of superheroes and science fiction, a concept that has as much in common with Star Trek as it does with Superman.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10029
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| Posted: 18 August 2012 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 24
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Someone up at Marvel once declared the FF to be comics' "premiere dysfunctional family" and many have chosen to play them that way ever since. Which totally misses the point. *** They always have to dump weakness and negativity on everything, don't they? Dysfunctional? I'd love to be a part of that family! They function well enough to save the world, and each others lives, on a daily basis!
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Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10515
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| Posted: 18 August 2012 at 8:13am | IP Logged | 25
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John Byrne wrote:
| ...Someone up at Marvel once declared the FF to be comics' "premiere dysfunctional family"... |
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I'm pretty sure that Grant Morrison said something along those lines when he was writing a "Fantastic Four" mini-series some years ago. It seems everyone is dysfunctional in his world.
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