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Robert White
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| Posted: 08 September 2012 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 1
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In an undertaking to organize the very best Batman runs throughout the characters history, I've decided on the following and was wondering what I'm missing. Here is what I have so far:
"Graphic Novels" - Batman Adventures: Mad Love by Paul Dini & Bruce Timm
- Batman: Son of the Demon by Mike M. Barr & Terry Bingham
- Batman: The Dark Night Returns by Frank Miller & Klaus Janson
- Batman: The Long Halloween by Jeff Loeb & Tim Sale
- Batman: Year One by Frank Miller and David Mazzucchelli
Batman Runs - Detective Comics/Batman and the Outsiders by Alan Davis
- Batman/Detective Comics by Don Newton
- Batman/Detective Comics/Shadow of the Bat by Steven Grant & Norm Breyfogle
- Batman/Batman and the Outsiders/Brave and the Bold by Jim Aparo
- Detective Comics by Marshall Rogers
- Batman/Brave and the Bold/Detective Comics by Neal Adams
Obviously my "best of" begins at Neal Adams in 1968, but I'd like to include older stuff. My problem lies in figuring out just what is "essential" prior to this. It's almost all important, but particularly during the 50's, the quality was often mediocre at best. I do like the early "dark" Batman tales by Kane/Finger/Robinson, but have only read the first dozen or so issues of this early Batman epoch. At what point does Golden Age Batman "jump the shark"?
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Andrew Hess
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| Posted: 08 September 2012 at 8:42pm | IP Logged | 2
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As to your last question of when Batman "jumped the shark," do you mean when did it stop being "dark"?
If so, essentially when they introduced Robin in Detective #38 (cover date April 1940), not even a dozen issues after Batman was introduced (Detective #27, cover date May 1939). At that point Batman's stories become decidedly less dark and are literally brighter; the villains too go from being dark (Hugo Strange and his genetic monsters, the vampire the Monk, etc) to colorful (Catwoman, Penquin, TweedleDee/TweedleDum, etc). The Joker was on the edge there and introduced just after Robin (Batman #1, cover date Spring 1940 but with Robin on the cover): a bright colorful villain with a lethal Joker venom.
That give just a year's worth of stories in Detective before things lighten.
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Chad Carter
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| Posted: 08 September 2012 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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Well, I may not be the biggest Gerry Conway fan in the world, but his run with Gene Colan and Don Newton is essential to me. If for nothing else than the whole "Batman Vampire" storyline, which would be revisited in Doug Moench's RED RAIN. The Batman: Vampire stuff is exclusively Colan pencils, but just three issues long.
I mean, if you list the Grant/Breyfogle run as essential, Batman has a couple of such periods of excellence. I happen to believe only true Batman fans love the David V. Reed period, with Ernie Chan on art, Jose Delbo, John Calnan, Jim Aparo, Walt Simonson, Romeo Tanghal, Sal Amendola, and on and on. Late 1970s. I guess many say the stories are hokey. I say people have no taste. David V. Reed wrote Batman like a clever dude who'd use his brain to noodle out exhaustively convoluted plots, and who reveled in his physical ability to crush criminals. In other words, a Batman without a lot of hang-ups, enjoying being Batman. Beautiful.
Also I think it's Mike W. Barr above, not Mike M.
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Mike Norris
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| Posted: 08 September 2012 at 9:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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Shouldn't it be: Detective Comics by Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers?
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Stephen Churay
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| Posted: 08 September 2012 at 10:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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Whether you find it corny or not, I'd find it hard to call any Essential
Batman collection complete without the work Dick Sprang did.
At this point, you can find every printed story from his first appearance
through Dick Sprang in THE BATMAN CHRONICLES volumes. There
pretty awesome.
As far as your later works, IMO, the Alan Davis run on Detective is a
must. Currently, DC is putting out a trade series' called TALES OF
THE DARK KNIGHT and LEGENDS OF THE DARK KNIGHT. These
trades focus on particular artists. Currently there are volumes on Alan
Davis, Marshall Rogers, Gene Colan, Don Newton, and two volumes
on Jim Aparo. These are selected works.
Of the stories Jim Aparo drew, I'm a big fan of a couple from the
eighties with DEATH IN THE FAMILY and
TEN NIGHTS OF THE BEAST. I consider them essential.
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Aaron Smith
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 7:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Whether you find it corny or not, I'd find it hard to call any Essential
Batman collection complete without the work Dick Sprang did.
At this point, you can find every printed story from his first appearance
through Dick Sprang in THE BATMAN CHRONICLES volumes. There
pretty awesome.
*** I agree. Sprang's work is absolutely beautiful. And those Chronicles volumes are wonderful. Much less expensive than Archives and in color. They're a great way to experience the Golden Age stories.
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Paul Gibney
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 7
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I'm a big fan of the 40's and 50's Batman. I don't think you should dismiss that era so easily. The DC Classics Library has reprinted The Batman Annuals in two volumes. If you can, take a look at those.
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Aaron Smith
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 8
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I just thought of something I'd put on any "best of Batman" list and probably on any "best of superheroes" list:
JB's BATMAN/ CAPTAIN AMERICA
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Robert White
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 9
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Thanks for the help. Gene Colon's run is another one I forgot to add. This list I'm making is primarily artist based and based on the recent collections DC's been releasing.
As far as my comment about "jumping the shark" I'm aware that Robin lightens up Batman quite a bit (I've read as far as a few issues after his debut in Batman and Detective) but even so, I still enjoy the stories as it still "feels" like Batman for me. What I meant was when does Batman start to devolve into sci-fi? I know it's sometime around the end of WWII or just after. One day I might read the era, I just have a hard time generating much interest in reading 50's and early 60's era Batman.
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 10
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Mike Norris wrote:
| Shouldn't it be: Detective Comics by Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers? |
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Yes indeed. Rogers did a handful of Batman stories after Englehart left, but they are all uniformly generic (despite the beautiful artwork).
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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Robert, Batman really didn't "devolve into sci-fi" until the late 50's. Before that, the focus was on more conventional crime stories and mysteries as it always had been.
Another run worth seeking out is Archie Goodwin's brief tenure as editor of Detective Comics in 1974 (issues #437-443). That run is best-known for the Manhunter back-up series he did with Walt Simonson, but the lead Batman stories (all but one written by Goodwin) are uniformly excellent. Goodwin gets some unusual artists to work on his stuff... there's two stories by Jim Aparo (at a time when solo Batman stories were a rarity for him) and he also taps Alex Toth and Howard Chaykin. And of course Simonson does the last issue, the classic Batman/Manhunter team-up.
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Brett C. Flechaus
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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If you're going by Artist, My favorite 1970's Batman stuff is by Michael Golden. I think DC could squeeze one trade out of the handfull of issues he did in Batman, Batman Family, Detective and that awesome Dollar Comics Special. And I wish they would get going already ! The above mentioned books on Rogers, Colan, Newton & Aparo, give me hope that it may be sooner than later. My least favorite Golden issue is that Batman Annual that had that opposite Batman.......the inking was either way too tight or Golden's style had taken a radical shift at that point ?
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Chad Carter
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 13
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The greatest Batman comic ever. No hyperbole either:
Two Denny O'Neil stories, Mike Golden, Marshall Rogers, and Dick Giordano on art; also a David V. Reed story by Mike Netzer and Joe Rubinstein.
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Charles Nelson
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 14
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They're not "in continuity", but I believe that the 3 Superman & Batman: Generations series are fantastic. I read them all at least once a year.
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 11:07pm | IP Logged | 15
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Chad Carter wrote:
| The greatest Batman comic ever. No hyperbole either: |
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I remember being really disappointed to find that the O'Neil/Marshall Rogers story was just a prose story with illustrations, rather than an actual comic story. Marshall was my first "favorite artist ever" and I loved the way he laid out pages and told a story, so I was bummed. I was even more bummed when he stopped doing Batman comics shortly thereafter. It's still a really nice comic though. I wouldn't call it the "greatest ever" myself, but it is really nice.
The late 70's was a really great time for Bat-art. After the bland mid-70's period of John Calnan and Ernie Chan, we suddenly had Marshall, Golden, and Don Newton on the scene.
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Stephen Churay
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 11:26pm | IP Logged | 16
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What I meant was when does Batman start to devolve into sci-fi? I
know it's sometime around the end of WWII or just after. One day I
might read the era, I just have a hard time generating much interest in
reading 50's and early 60's era Batman.
====
IIRC, that's Carmine Infantino era.
Also, under graphic novels, I'd add THE KILLING JOKE and THE
CULT.
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Stephen Churay
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| Posted: 09 September 2012 at 11:31pm | IP Logged | 17
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Oh, and if you can find them, there's JB's BATMAN 3D and the 70's
crossover BATMAN VS. HULK.
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Robert White
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 3:52am | IP Logged | 18
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So, basically I should just get everything, and read everything, up till the early 90's? ;)
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 19
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No, not everything. I don't think anyone is advising you to read the
sci-fi Batman (circa 1958 to mid 1964)... it's definitely for completeists only. Sales had dropped and they were trying gimmicks to liven things up... tons of stories about aliens and monsters, and a greater emphasis on the "Bat-family" (Batwoman, Batgirl, Bat-Dog) in an effort to emulate Weisinger's Superman books. This was the period immediately before the Julie Schwartz/Infantino "New Look" Batman that saved the character from cancellation.
And I know Chad recommended David Vern's stuff from the mid-70's, but for me the art (primarily by John Calnan and Ernie Chan) just sinks those stories. Neither one is a good fit for Batman at all.
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Dave B Stewart
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 20
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The Batman in the 40s - Batman in the 80s books are really good samplers of older Batman books.
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Paul Gibney
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 21
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Jason Czeskleba wrote:
| No, not everything. I don't think anyone is advising you to read the sci-fi Batman (circa 1958 to mid 1964)... |
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I am. Oh, there were some bad ones in there, but I'm suggesting there are more good stories in that period than there are bad. Don't dismiss the whole period out of hand
Stephen Churay wrote:
| What I meant was when does Batman start to devolve into sci-fi? IIRC, that's Carmine Infantino era.. |
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Nope. The Infantino era is when Batman came OUT of the sci-fi era.
Stephen Churay wrote:
| Also, under graphic novels, I'd add THE KILLING JOKE and THE CULT. |
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Of course, it's subjective, but I'd suggest exactly the opposite. The Killing Joke was fundamently wrong on almost every level. The Cult was just muddy and confusing.
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 7:22pm | IP Logged | 22
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I do enjoy a lot of the sci-fi Batman stuff, though a great part of that may be due to childhood nostalgia. I wouldn't recommend any of it as "essential." There are some fun stories and some well-done stories in there, but the overall approach was misguided. It's a notable part of Batman's history, but I wouldn't advise someone who's looking for the very best to go there.
One thing that always struck me as odd is that in the early 70's anthology Batman from the 30's to the 70's, the entire 60's section features only material from 1960-63. There's only one story from the 1964-69 period included, and it's anachronously placed in the 70's section. So the book jumps from Sheldon-Moldoff-drawn stories about aliens to Neal Adams... a really abrupt transition.
I'm not at all a fan of The Cult... Batman brutally tortured and brainwashed is not what I want to see and is far too grim-n-gritty. And Wrightson's art was a huge disappointment. His version of Batman here is much too influenced by DKR... Batman's limbs are as thick as tree trunks. Very disappointing given the great version of Batman he drew in Swamp Thing #7. I've never read The Killing Joke, but based on what I know about the plot and my experiences with Allan Moore's writing in general, I'm guessing I would despise it.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 10 September 2012 at 7:24pm
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Chad Carter
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 23
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This is as good a time as any to point out how underrated I think Bob Brown was. Especially on Batman. I think Brown is uniformly ignored, but his Batman is very cool. Before Kelley Jones was doing all that dramatic effect with Batman running around with his cape draped across his face, Brown was doing it, especially early on, unsolicited. If you get SHOWCASE BATMAN 4 (the one which covers the latter Frank Robbins-writ stuff, early O'Neil/Adams and Nick Cardy in his prime) you can see what Brown was doing.
I can't find examples online as yet, but this was a cool original art page. I adore Brown's work.
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 10 September 2012 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 24
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Bob Brown was great. O'Neil and Adams tend to get all the credit for the Batman of the late 60s/early 70s, but writer Frank Robbins and artists Brown and Irv Novick were also hugely important to restoring Batman's post-camp credibility. Robbins wrote some great hard-boiled detective stories, and what's especially impressive is that he did it without using Batman's familiar rogue's gallery. From 1969 to 1971 there was a 26-month period in which not one of Batman's major villains appeared in either Batman or Detective. I don't think that's happened anytime before or since in Batman's history.
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Topic Closed)
