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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 7:54pm | IP Logged | 1
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Of course what's really annoying is that DC has never learned from it's mistakes. Every reboot has been necessitated by the same lack of foresight in the previous one. The Nu52, which is perhaps the most radical departure DC has ever tried, seems to be on course to setting up the next hit upon the cosmic reset switch.
If insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results (and if a corporation can be insane), then DC is coo-coo for Coco Puffs.
Or maybe just Batty.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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Of course what's really annoying is that DC has never learned from it's
mistakes. Every reboot has been necessitated by the same lack of
foresight in the previous one. The Nu52, which is perhaps the most
radical departure DC has ever tried, seems to be on course to setting
up the next hit upon the cosmic reset switch.
If insanity is doing the same thing over and over, but expecting
different results (and if a corporation can be insane), then DC is coo-
coo for Coco Puffs.
Or maybe just Batty.
======
Agreed, not rebooting Batman or Green Lantern with the Nu52 was a
bad idea. It's the same mistake all over again. Second verse, same as
the first.
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 9:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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I really liked Crisis back in the day, because it seemed to energize the entire universe. As a kid in the early 80's I loved the dynamic artwork of the Marvel books, even though I considered myself a DC kind of guy. But the art just seemed so stale. When I heard this Byrne guy was coming to DC I was really looking forward to it, and MOS did not disappoint. But the Crisis, in hindsight, seems like a wasted opportunity. As Stephen said, we now seem locked in an endless loop of reboots of reboots. I fear we are so far gone now there's no one at DC that even knows who their characters are anymore.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7654
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 9:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think Batman Year 1 got a sifter ride than Man of Steel because it came after Dark Knight. People wanted a sequel to that and Yr 1 was a way of getting a sequel. Nowadays (well, actually, for the past decade or two, man I'm getting on in years) , I do object to each new creative team basically doing 'their' version of whatever character they are on - and by this I mean beyond just Batman and Superman. DC have been doing it for years to the point that their characters seem to have pretty much lost their identities. Marvel now seem to be starting to follow suit - probably with Grant Morrison's X-Men being the launch pad for that. New 52 should have been a start from scratch and that would have been great. now I don't know what's in and what's out - and neither do DC (see Robin for maybe the best example of this). The biggest thing though is - I just can't be bothered. I can't be bothered to care about this whole converluted mess. I can't be bothered to try to figure out what volume Iron Man or Captain America is on, I can't be bothered to buy yet another number 1.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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New 52 never should've happened. Really, these reboots aren't necessary at this point... DC should just sign good creative teams to tell good stories. These teams should also be able to deliver on a monthly basis without delay and for at least a year or two on the title they've committed to contractually. Simple enough, no?
-C!
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Richard White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 August 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1058
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| Posted: 17 October 2012 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 6
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I thought I would mention here that in a couple of weeks a collection of Alan Davis' Batman work will be out, in the same format as the recent Colan, Newton, Rogers and Aparo books.
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 7
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This is why the 52 reboot was so revealing: YEAR ONE, KILLING JOKE, DEATH IN THE FAMILY -- we're close to 25 YEARS for all those stories yet DC still can't just move on... or at least, not mention them. They had to explicitly state they "still happened" (even recreating famous panels from them) after the reboot. It's nuts... and it's almost as if the fans turned pros can't let go of a piece of their childhoods. *** I can't stand that attitude among the fans turned pro. I don't care what past stories "didn't happen" even if those stories are favorites of mine. It's not as if a reboot can erase old copies of those stories from existence. All I care about if that any character, in whatever his present form is, contains the essential elements that made him a great character. Batman needs his reason for fighting crime, his costume, his Bruce Wayne identity, Gotham City, his villians, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, and the various skills he uses to fight crime. Other than that, I really don't care if the story in Batman # 435 (to choose a random number) is still in continuity or not.
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Re: Crisis on Infinite Earths and what followed...
Don't do a story with the purpose of streamlining and clarifying continuity
that achieves the exact opposite of its intended goal.
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 9
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>>not rebooting Batman or Green Lantern with the Nu52 was a
bad idea<<
Outside of all the hootenanny on the costumes, this was probably the most
irritating aspect of the New 52. Well, then, there are those horrible
stories, but keeping two primary figures out of the reboot is just silly.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 7:25am | IP Logged | 10
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The funny thing was, Batman was being constantly "rebooted", but Batfans seemed either to not notice, or not care.
I think it's all about selective continuity; readership felt that old stories 'happened', even if creative teams didn't mention them. 'Pre-Crisis' me liked this implied status quo, and I didn't need to have every single story that ever happened to Superman or Batman explained into a logical timeline.
The more DC tries to 'fix' things the more broken they become.
Like Charles said: DC should just sign good creative teams to tell good stories.
And maybe stop letting marketing teams and clueless editors dictate content.
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 11
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Funny thing, when the book started to come out and it was obvious Frank had NOT done his homework, and was simply reinventing the characters in his own image, I heard nary a complaint. I wondered at the time if Bat-fans were somehow less anal than Super-fans? Seemed like it would be the other way 'round.
_______________________________
My theory is that the vocal elitist older comic book fans and comic book reviewers saw Miller's comic book work as being "KEWL","edgy",and "mature" and therefore ignored and/or excused any mistakes or revisions/retcons that he made to Batman's history. Like Alan Moore, those same elitist comic fans and reviewers held Miller and his work up as some kind of ambassador to those adults who do not read comics. Those same elitist older fans viewed your work as being more traditional and more all ages appropriate and therefore saw your work on Superman as not being "KEWL" or "mature" enough to get new adult non comic book readers to start reading comics. They felt that this gave them a pass to over scrutinize and complain about your work on Superman.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 18 October 2012 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 12
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Funny thing, when the book started to come out and it was obvious Frank had NOT done his homework, and was simply reinventing the characters in his own image, I heard nary a complaint. I wondered at the time if Bat-fans were somehow less anal than Super-fans? Seemed like it would be the other way 'round._______________________________ My theory is that the vocal elitist older comic book fans and comic book reviewers saw Miller's comic book work as being "KEWL","edgy",and "mature" and therefore ignored and/or excused any mistakes or revisions/retcons that he made to Batman's history. Like Alan Moore, those same elitist comic fans and reviewers held Miller and his work up as some kind of ambassador to those adults who do not read comics. Those same elitist older fans viewed your work as being more traditional and more all ages appropriate and therefore saw your work on Superman as not being "KEWL" or "mature" enough to get new adult non comic book readers to start reading comics. They felt that this gave them a pass to over scrutinize and complain about your work on Superman. •• Or we could be talking about really DUMB fans. After all, as noted, MAN OF STEEL was ANNOUNCED as a "reboot", while DKR/YEAR ONE were not. I can almost see it: Fan A: Miller is making all kinds of changes to Batman's backstory! Fan B: No, here's not! Fan A: Sure he is! He changed Gordon, he changed Catwoman, he changed Alfred, he changed the Joker…! Fan B: No, he couldn't have. Fan A: But he did! Look! Fan B: You must be reading it wrong. DC did not announce this as a reboot, so everything must be still the same.
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Topic Closed)
