Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Star Wars
Byrne Robotics > Star Wars << Prev Page of 17 Next >>
Topic: Star Byrnes (Byrne Wars?) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Bill Guerra
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 March 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 955
Posted: 02 June 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I know I'm chiming in here late, but that is a great face for Vader, JB! Its very haunting.
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 119879
Posted: 02 June 2013 at 8:41pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

After the rumor criculated briefly that Patrick Magoohan would be playing the Emperor, ol' Fried Egg Eyes couldn't be anything but a disappointment. Especially since his monkish robes were totally at odds with the crisp, Flash Gordon/Dune style garb of the rest of the Imperials.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15765
Posted: 02 June 2013 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I do wonder just when and why the change from figurehead to puppet-
master was made.

In Leigh Brackett's first draft of EMPIRE, Vader is (as in the final film)
contacted by the Emperor (who wears a golden robe), and tells Vader
to hunt down Luke, as he, too, has felt a disturbance in the Force.

But this draft was written before Lucas ostensibly came up with Father
Vader, in the second draft.

The development of the evil wizard who seduced Anakin to the dark
side is a logical development AFTER the invention of Father Vader, but
before? Hmm.

Looking at that first draft, I get the impression that this was an early
story point which specifically resulted from the 9-film SAGA plan--the
Emperor now needed to be set up as the Big Bad (feared even by
Vader) who would finally be met and defeated in EPISODE IX.


As an aside, I was watching EMPIRE on TV yesterday, and was struck
by an interpretation of the film in the "orthodox" light; it's deliciously
twisted that Vader would try to convert the son of a (supposed) former
comrade whom he had already betrayed and murdered, to the point of
maiming Luke and falsely claiming to be his father.

To use a familiar analogue, it's almost like Doctor Doom murdering
Reed Richards, and then trying to twist Franklin into becoming his heir.
Deliciously evil!


I'm a bit of a sucker for stories where the next generation inherits their
parent's enemy and has to clean up an old mess. This could have
played out in a very cool way, had Father Vader not entered the
picture.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 119879
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 4:09am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

And if only the "I am your father" line had turned out to be, oh, I dunno, a LIE. Then it could have played thru with my once-upon-a-time idea that Vader, restored to the proper side of the Force, would be the "other".

To this day I do not understand what impelled Lucas down the path he took.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10880
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 4:54am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

As much as EMPIRE betrayed the story of the original film did JEDI kill it. And although I don't care for or about either sequel, the third film couldn't even be faithful to some of the possibly interesting newly introduced premises of the second, such was the depths of JEDI's awfulness, driven by its ostensible raisin d'être: let's shit all over the franchise. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
FAQ Master Supreme

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4941
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 John Byrne wrote:
And if only the "I am your father" line had turned out to be, oh, I dunno, a LIE.


On the playground at my school, the 9-year-old Star Wars fans all pretty much agreed that Darth Vader was lying, and that Luke Skywalker was correct when he screamed "That's impossible!" We imagined that there would be a big reveal in the next movie where we learned that Vader was playing a game with Luke's head.

Instead, we got a dying Yoda confirming that it was true. Ugh.

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15765
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

As I have mentioned before, I find it very interesting that Jones' reading
of the famous line emphasizes "I", not "am".

This makes it sound as if Vader is not at all claiming that he is the then-
unnamed character established as Luke's father, but rather that he is
Luke's father INSTEAD of that then-unnamed character.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15765
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

To this day I do not understand what impelled Lucas down the path he
took.
+++++++

Perhaps his friend Spielberg's hangup for father-son stories rubbed off
on him.

Or, as it has been speculated, perhaps he was injecting some of his
own father-son angst into the films (his own father wanted him to take
over the family business, but he rebelled, and ran off to join those dirty
hippies in Hollywood).
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 119879
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

To this day I do not understand what impelled Lucas down the path he took.

+++++++

Perhaps his friend Spielberg's hangup for father-son stories rubbed off on him.

Or, as it has been speculated, perhaps he was injecting some of his own father-son angst into the films (his own father wanted him to take over the family business, but he rebelled, and ran off to join those dirty hippies in Hollywood).

••

Or perhaps (and most likely?) he just heard all the STAR WARS fans raving about how "cool" Vader was, and the dollar signs lit up in his eyes.

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Imaginary X-Man

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 119879
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

As I have mentioned before, I find it very interesting that Jones' reading of the famous line emphasizes "I", not "am".

This makes it sound as if Vader is not at all claiming that he is the then-unnamed character established as Luke's father, but rather that he is Luke's father INSTEAD of that then-unnamed character.

••

At least one friend has suggested that was the "betrayal" Obi-Wan mentioned.

Haven't I head that Lucas had Jones read the line with several different inflections, and then just picked the one he wanted?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15765
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I dunno. Never heard anything about that.

Certainly, Jones wasn't told intended truth of the matter. He was just
given the line, and was left hanging like everyone else for three years. I
do wonder what direction he was given in the looping booth. Perhaps
he read it the way he personally interpreted it (as Vader claiming to be
the father instead of Father Skywalker character), and nobody caught
that particular emphasis.

Perhaps that take was chosen because it helped maintain the
ambiguity of the matter by hinting that Vader and Skywalker were still
separate characters, but with Vader as the actual father.

This makes me wonder, since I wasn't there at the time--how did
people interpret the revelation when the film was first released--that
Vader was the fallen Father Skywalker, or that he was still a separate
character who claimed to be Luke's real father?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
Posted: 03 June 2013 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Vader and Skywalker as two distinct character and Vader having seduced Skywalker's wife through deception* would not have salvaged Obi-Wan's character and made more internal sense but would have provided fodder for a more engaging prequel series.

You could have mirrored the dynamic of the original series: Anakin Skywalker as the innocent white hat (Luke), Padme as the strong, determined princess he loves (Leia), and Vader (young Christian Bale, young Christian Bale!) as the lancer -- the Han Solo except he's not inherently good like Solo and makes different choices.

Vader's redemption would work better in JEDI if his climatic choice -- betraying the Emperor (power) for Luke (love) wasn't basically the same choice he made in ROTS (betraying the Jedi for what he believes will save Padme). I still don't know what Lucas was thinking as far as a character arc.

*When I suggest that Vader would have seduced Padme through deception, I imagine Vader manipulating her, claiming that crimes he'd committed (sand people, for example) were Anakin's or something alone those lines, slowly using his position as Anakin's friend to poison their relationship and make his move.

Obi-Wan would not be the wiser, so his statement in STAR WARS would be true.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 

<< Prev Page of 17 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login