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Topic: Superman/Batman Movie ~ SPOILERS start Pg 60 Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jesus Garcia
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 10:51am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The Bat, The Alien, and The President?
The Immigrant, The Playboy, and The Crook?
Two Brunettes and a Baldy?
The Cape, The Cowl, and The Wig?
The Fortress, The Cave, and The Tower?
The Boyscout, The Psycho, and The Weird Rich Dude?
CK, BW, and LL?
JLA: The Beginning?
Metropolis vs Gotham?
Finest Beginnings?
Steel vs Knight?
Dark Steel, Bright Bat, Chrome Dome?
Lois doesn't Live Here Anymore?
Operation: Luthor?
Friends and Enemies?
Superfriends?

Superman & Batman doesn't sound too bad after that.

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James Howell
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Warner Bros. knows that a lot of comic book fans will see this stuff, regardless if the film is good or not. I have a high school friend who now works in the comic book industry, and he LOVED the Green Lantern movie. I was stupefied that anyone who was a GL fan would love that film, but many of them do. People loved Superman Returns, they loved the Nolan Bat-films, and they'll love this "World's Finest" film. It'll be as terrible and not faithful to the characters as all the other films, but it won't matter, and the WB knows that. It's completely pavlovian at this point, in terms of fan response.


Edited by James Howell on July 26 2013 at 12:19pm
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Ian Penman
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

'This isn't a movie that is just going to spring up spontaneously; with Snyder, Goyer and Nolan involved, it's a reasonable assumption of what to expect'.

Assumptions; Never assume anything is a pretty good rule of thumb.

 

However....Nolan and co have made some of the most financial successful fims ever and have made 'super hero' movies 'cool' again. The problem is....?

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Kevin Sharp
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

JB might not enjoy this news, but I was over at WB this week & saw a copy of MoS #3 (along with DKR & others) in one of the production offices. Take that for what it's worth.
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DW Zomberg
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The problem is...?

It's only a problem if you care about fidelity to source material, the treatment of these beloved characters, storylines that make sense, etc, etc.

And how did Nolan and co make superhero movies 'cool' exactly? Seems to me they had quite a bit of help with the X Men and Spider-Man franchises, Iron Man, Avengers...Quality of those films aside, Nolan is part of a wave, hardly the master architect.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Ian Penman wrote:
Nolan and co have made some of the most financial successful fims ever...

Financial success does not automatically equate to quality of product.  Tim Burton's ALICE IN WONDERLAND made over 1 billion dollars worldwide, but I'd hardly say that it was a quality film.  Technically?  Sure.  Everything else that really matters?  Total bore.


 QUOTE:
...and have made 'super hero' movies 'cool' again.

As DW points out, Nolan hardly did it in a vacuum.  Before it were two highly successful X-Men films and the blockbuster that was Raimi's SPIDER-MAN.  As a point of fact, after all was said and done BATMAN BEGINS was a modest hit at best.  It wasn't until Heath Ledger's untimely death put his second to last film (last full film) dead center in the public eye and helped catapult THE DARK KNIGHT to blockbuster status that the franchise became a billion dollar behemoth.  However and again that does not, in any way, automatically equal quality.


 QUOTE:
...The problem is....?

To Thom's point, it's not like we don't know what Snyder, Nolan et. al are going to do with these characters.  We've got three films by Nolan that generally lay out the universe in which they live and we have one film by Snyder that shows you how he plans to play in that world.  If you loved all three Nolan Batman films and thought Snyder's MoS was just peachy keen, then the sequel will more than likely be right up your alley.  Bully for you, but I don't need to see a fifth film in the ever expanding Warner Brothers/DC universe of comic book movies to know that I'll hate it as much as I did DKR and MoS.  Fool me once, fool me twice...
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Ian Penman
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

If you don't like them, Matt, that's fine. There are elements that I don't like in the four films. But, in general terms, I think they're very good movies that have helped make sure we get more comic-based films. As have Avengers and  other Marvel movies.

I'm relieved that the embarrasing days of that rotten 'Batman' TV show and the 'Batman & Robin' movie are behind us. This is surely the golden age of comic-based movies.

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Mark Haslett
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 3:29pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Ian: There are elements that I don't like in the four films. But, in general terms, I think they're very good movies that have helped make sure we get more comic-based films. As have Avengers and other Marvel movies.

I'm relieved that the embarrasing days of that rotten 'Batman' TV show and the 'Batman & Robin' movie are behind us. This is surely the golden age of comic-based movies.
**
Wow. For someone who cautions against making assumptions, that's quite a conclusion to leap to.

If "golden age" refers only to market share and has nothing to do with quality, then you may be right.

But if quality counts, this is more like the golden age of missed opportunities. Never have there been so many Superhero movies-- and Batman TV seems to be fading away-- yet the embarrassment of actually adapting what's in the comics is higher than ever. NOTHING from the comics is allowed to stay.

Compared to today, the Batman TV series has a SIN CITY level of faithfulness to its source.

Edited by Mark Haslett on July 26 2013 at 3:33pm
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Ian Penman
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 4:41pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

In the way it looked; yes. In the tone; absolutely not.
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John Byrne
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Warner Bros. knows that a lot of comic book fans will see this stuff, regardless if the film is good or not.

They'll each have to see it a LOT of times to have any significant impact on the Box Office. Hell, to be even NOTICED at the Box Office!

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John Byrne
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

If "golden age" refers only to market share and has nothing to do with quality, then you may be right.

Well, the "Golden Age" of comics was pretty much the same! Lots of product, lots of money being made, quality. . . . spotty.

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John Byrne
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Posted: July 26 2013 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Compared to today, the Batman TV series has a SIN CITY level of faithfulness to its source.

++

In the way it looked; yes. In the tone; absolutely not.

The Batman TV series seemed to me a pretty good mirror of the BATMAN comics I had only recently stopped reading. I was 15 when the show debuted. Kids younger than me ate it up. They didn't "get" that the show was actually MOCKING Batman. All the STUFF was there, so if the "tone" was off (and it was) they didn't notice. Heck, I barely noticed.

So now we flip the equation, and in modern movies the "tone" is more appropriate (or, at least, more serious), but the STUFF isn't there.

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Ian Penman
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Well put, JB. My feeling is that the tone is more important than the stuff.
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John Byrne
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

My feeling is that the tone is more important than the stuff.

Why not BOTH? This isn't quantum physics, where we can know the position of an electron, but not its speed, or vice versa. Why can't we have the "stuff" AND the "tone"? SUPERMAN - THE MOVIE came pretty close. The first IRON MAN. Even BATMAN BEGINS was a fair approximation of both parts, rubber suit notwithstanding.

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Charles Valderrama
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

The fan film created years ago by Sandy Collora shortly after he did Batman: Dead End....

Nicely edited fan "trailer" of what could've been starring Reeve and Keaton...


-C!
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Jeff Tulley
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

After the 3 Nolan Batman films and Man of Steel - we do have a good idea of the tone and look of future films so I cannot blame someone at this stage for skipping the next installment.

Lucky for me though - these films really resonate with me - i LOVE them. So I am pumped that there is more to come.

Ian - I agree that we are in a golden age of superhero movies.
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Jeff Tulley
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

Financial success does not equal quality but it does show that it resonates with a large number of the viewing public. Dark Knight Rises made the most money of all 3 films (rare for the 3rd part of a trilogy).

The views of comic book 'purists' do not translate into any major sales/decrease in ticket sales so why should the studios cater to that audience? it is not where the money is.

Seems like the mainstream audience likes what Nolan and crew are putting out there - and I agree with them.
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 18 post reply

The views of comic book 'purists' do not translate into any major sales/decrease in ticket sales so why should the studios cater to that audience?

-----

I truly hate this argument. It is not about "purism". There are reasons why certain characters have enjoyed long-term success, and the further that a movie drifts away from those things, the further they drift away from what made the characters appealing in the first place.  And I do think this gets reflected in the box office and critical and audience response.

As for DARK KNIGHT RISES, adjusted for inflation, it made less than THE DARK KNIGHT. Domestically, it made less than the Burton movie.
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John Byrne
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

Financial success does not equal quality but it does show that it resonates with a large number of the viewing public.

And that viewing public knows nothing of these characters beyond what they see in the movies. Which is precisely what Hollywood banks (literally) on. The movies are not made for fans. In fact, they are made with contempt for fans (and for the characters, often as not).

Yet, again, the question must be WHY? "We have to make changes," say the bean counters in Hollywood, yet upon what is this based? A hundred years of movies that trashed the source? What kind of proof is that? Where are the faithful adaptations that crash and burn horribly? THAT I might accept as proof that "we have to make changes". But until then...

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Jeff Tulley
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

Michael Roberts - ridiculous - your arguing against yourself. If the movies aren't what you consider close to the source (which is very subjective) - then why are they raking in BILLIONS? When was the last time one of your dull so-called classic comics or interpretations made that much?

The answer is simple.never. And you can play with words as much as you want..DARK KNIGHT RISES pulled in more than a billion worldwide. So that batman resonates more than any version that was published 40 years ago to a shrinking audience.

I think it comes down to fanboys who think they know better than comic companies, film companies, established creators, etc..jealous that they are no longer part of an exclusive little comic book club and the hobby has left them behind.
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Jack Michaels
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 21 post reply


 QUOTE:
As for DARK KNIGHT RISES, adjusted for inflation, it made less than THE DARK KNIGHT. Domestically, it made less than the Burton movie.

May all of our problems be on par with making a bit less than a runaway smash hit. 

I really don't want to get into the faithfulness of these movies as adaptations because I'm a casual comic fan at best, but the movies have been extremely successful, have gotten quite a lot of critical acclaim, and have been well-received by their target audience. 

I didn't care for Spider-Man 2 or Batman Begins, but after topping fan polls for nearly a decade, making tons of money at the box office, and receiving quite a lot of critical acclaim, I find myself unable to craft any sort of argument that either film was bad, only that I didn't like them. 
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Jeff Tulley
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Jack - exactly - people seem to be grasping at straws to make it seem like some of these films are 'failures'...truth is the studios have comic book films on their slates for years and years to come. They dominate the top ten charts any given year (Iron Man 3 and Man of Steel are 2 of the years biggest hits - outgrossing films by Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, and other bankable stars) and make a ton of money..no matter how many acrobatics guys like Micheal and Greg try to do to prove otherwise.

I for one am happy - seems like they resonate with me and I enjoy them..the ones I do not like (X3, DD, etc) were just not for me..I don't feel the need to 'prove' how they were done wrong, strayed from the all mighty source, etc...that is just fanboy whining.
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Ed Love
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 23 post reply

I think part of what feeds is that mentality is that in the past, for live-action you HAD to make changes. The budgets and fx just weren't there. The Hulk doesn't fight the Abomination, the Rhino, the Leader, etc because of lack of quality in the source material but because it would have been nigh impossible to do, especially on a tv budget. It would have been too expensive and difficult to have the Green Goblin, Vulture, Dr. Octopus etc on the live-action Spider-man show. But, in the cartoons where that wasn't a factor, you got it all. I remember as a kid being impressed that the Dr. Strange tv movie actually felt like a comic.

Now, the technology and the budgets have gotten to the point they can capture the costumes and powers faithfully on the screen, to deliver what we've been waiting and wanting to see... and they still don't.
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 24 post reply

They dominate the top ten charts any given year (Iron Man 3 and Man
of Steel are 2 of the years biggest hits - outgrossing films by Tom
Cruise, Brad Pitt, and other bankable stars) and make a ton of
money..no matter how many acrobatics guys like Micheal and Greg try
to do to prove otherwise.
++++++++

"Acrobatics"?

As I said, I hadn't been following the box office totals, and was under
the impression that MOS would finish not too far ahead of RETURNS,
money-wise. I now see that to be incorrect.
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Shaun Barry
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Posted: July 27 2013 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 25 post reply


Jeff, do you consider yourself a comic book fan, or just a "comic book movie" fan? Seems like you hold a lot of contempt for the source material, and those who wish that the films would hold true to what's been established in the past by the original creators (rather than the Hollywood-types who would make up their own rules as they go along).
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