Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Movies
Byrne Robotics > Movies << Prev Page of 80 Next >>
Topic: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice ~ SPOILERS start Pg 60 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Jeff Tulley
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 June 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 116
Posted: 27 July 2013 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Shaun - I am a comic book fan - but I think I am a fan of different comic books than some of the people here.

My favorites for example:
Dark Knight Returns and Year One by Frank Miller
Brubaker's Catwoman and Captain America runs
Warren Ellis Authority, Secret Avengers, etc
Garth Ennis Punisher Max run
Greg Rucka's Queen & Country, Lazarus, Gotham Central, etc

I like more modern comics so the movies seem to reflect those sensibilities.

No contempt for the source material - just different source material that resonates with me.

I guess I am lucky that modern comic books and comic book movies are to my liking and are aimed at fans with my tastes.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jeff Tulley
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 25 June 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 116
Posted: 27 July 2013 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I also find the 'original creator' argument not to hold water.

The truly original Batman comics had him brandishing a gun and stabbing vampires in the chest while they slept.

Some fans here want an approximation of Batman from the late 60s/early70s - which is fine - but at that point any version is fair game - including Frank Miller's, Chuck Dixon's, the 80s, 90s, 2000s, etc..

Same with Superman, the X-Men, etc...in most cases the original creators were going by the seat of their pants (which was great and made for great reading) but they did not have a master plan in place. So it is fair game for the movies to base films on recent comics or an amalgalm of what the filmmaker likes best.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2673
Posted: 27 July 2013 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

BUT, the Batman of the modern movies isn't the Batman of the modern comics either. Batman has since been made a bit more like the movies, but the characters, the costumes and stories of those movies still don't reflect the comics. Ditto on Superman. DC has made Superman look a little more like the movie version, but only in that both are equally off model from 70 + years of depictions.  The story and characters don't bear resemblance to the current comics at all. The Marvel movies cherry pick the details they use from the main U. and the Ultimate U., add a whole bunch of new stuff and you end up with a hodge-podge that again cannot be found in the comics, so they change some of the comics to match the movies... the tail wagging the dog.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4376
Posted: 28 July 2013 at 1:40am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Ed: ...so they change some of the comics to match the movies... the tail wagging the dog.

***

It could be a great idea-- if only it were able to lead to something, like kids buying comics.

The tail wagging the dog could've been a good thing in 1979 if DC had made their comics match Superman the movie-- put Clark back at the Daily Planet, drop all reference to the non-conforming storylines and bingo-- Superman comics could have enjoyed a nice creative and commercial boost from the movie that did so much to reignite the character.

Today, however, comic books are dead. They really do not count and are only read by a handful of dedicated people. No one making the movies cares AT ALL what they change from the comics-- and why should they? The entire comics industry probably makes less money than a single hit film.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ian Penman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 455
Posted: 28 July 2013 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The 'Watchmen' movie was a very good  and very faithful adaption of the  graphic novel (with the exception of the unecessary changing of the ending). So it can be done. But is more likely to be done when the story is finite, like Watchman and Kick Ass. But not when it's Superman or Batman who will carry on 'forever'.
Back to Top profile | search
 
James Elliott
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 481
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 8:22am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

I enjoyed the Watchmen movie, but I question it's faithfulness to the comics at some level.  The movie version of Rorschach seemed a lot more skilled than the comic version.  That is, the characters in the comics seemed a lot more realistic in that they didn't fight and move and so on as superhumanly as the characters in the movie.  Dr. Manhattan excepted.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Ian Penman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 455
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

More a stylistic point, surely? 'The way things are done' in big budget movies nowadays.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3206
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Plot details are very few about the upcoming film, but Henry Cavill spoke recently about one specific thing: Lois Lane knowing Clark's secret:

"I think it's essential," he said. "Because if we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office. If she falls in love with Superman, and she's ignoring a guy who looks just like Superman, behaves just like him, and has the same kind of mannerisms and behavior, then what does that say about Lois? I like this relationship. She saves him just as much as he saves her."

Obviously, Cavill (and Snyder) didn't really understand the source material and how Superman actually does go to great lengths to make himself different in mannerisms as Clark, besides just the eye glasses. This was portray pretty well by Christopher Reeve in the first Superman film. Sad it has been disregarded by "smart fans".

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Beam Me Up, Scotty!

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 108170
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Plot details are very few about the upcoming film, but Henry Cavill spoke recently about one specific thing: Lois Lane knowing Clark's secret:

"I think it's essential," he said. "Because if we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office..."

Same mistakes as the comics, in less time, with more money.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 5270
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

To quote Tom Mankiewicz for the umpteenth time, from the SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE special features on DVD:

Said to director Richard Donner: "We can't be smarter than the material."
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13194
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

"Because if we're trying to base it in reality..."

*********


Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10477
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Ah a good classic face palm!
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
L’Homme Diabolique

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7595
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 13 post reply

"I think it's essential," he said. "Because if we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office..."

***

The kind of "solution" that creates more problems.  

Of course it's more "realistic" if Lois knows Clark is Superman.  The whole secret ID with a pair of glasses is the most fragile part of the Superman mythos.  But why just Lois?  Why wouldn't Perry notice that Clark is a dead ringer for Superman?  The other employees at the Daily Planet?  Clark's neighbors?  His dry cleaner?  Why even have a secret ID at that point?
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5822
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 14 post reply

Heck - the entire town of Smallville knows who he is, and if you drive into town looking for answers to the mystery of a super-powered man, they tell you to go see Martha Kent at the Kent farm!

Piece of cake! 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Joe Hollon
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 13194
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 15 post reply

Maybe they'll solve it the IRON MAN way and just have Clark announce it to the world on his Twitter account or something.  Why not?  It's realistic, right?

I know realism is all I've ever wanted in my superhero stories.


Edited by Joe Hollon on 29 July 2013 at 2:43pm
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Steven McCauley
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 23 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1394
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 16 post reply

"I think it's essential," he said. "Because if we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office..."

++++++++++

That seems true on the surface -- but Christopher Reeve proved it can be done.  It's not just the glasses.  It's the slumping, the hair, the higher voice, the nervousness.  

JB's explanation was pretty good too.  He's Superman. People would just assume he stays Superman all the time.  He doesn't wear a mask.  The only reason we know he has a secret identity is because we read the comics.  Superman never tells anyone, "I become someone else when I remove the costume."
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1690
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I liked Man of Steel, but I missed the visible actor's artistry Christopher Reeve brought to the role. The scene when Cavill told Ma Kent he had discovered his origins and conveyed a palpable physical self-assurance was the only time he came close. There was nothing wrong with Cavill's performance, but I appreciated how Reeve showed his work. The mannered style is out of fashion, but it was a great choice by Reeve to bring the audience with him as he navigated the aspect of the mythos which, even in the context of alien babies and flying men, seems to most threaten willful suspension of disbelief. 
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Doug Jones
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2128
Posted: 29 July 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

That scene with Clark and Ma was cringe-worthy--a perfect example of how poorly written this version of the character is. 

"Ma," he says, smiling --almost elated. "I found them. My people." She is visibly crushed. Seeing that, he actually has the nerve to ask her what's wrong. He's 30 fucking years old! He can't figure out how painful that would be? After losing Pa in that convoluted manner? 

In which version of the comics--modern or otherwise--does an adult Clark treat Martha Kent this poorly?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5822
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 12:08am | IP Logged | 19 post reply

In which version of the comics--modern or otherwise--does an adult Clark treat Martha Kent this poorly?

----

In his defense, he's also the kind of person that would help annihilate a city by fighting a super-powered genocidal madman in the middle of one of the most densely populated areas on the planet. So, you know, basic human decency is clearly NOT one of his super-powers. 
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Jani Evinen
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 1078
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 3:19am | IP Logged | 20 post reply

That particular scene is a bit uneven yes.

There's also scenes where Clark says very nice things to Ma Kent, especially the scene after the battle in Smalllville. It's shown in the film that he clearly cares a lot about her and loves. 

Writing is a bit uneven in the film, I agree with that.  

Cavill is a perfect choice to play Superman. Seen the film three times now.


Back to Top profile | search
 
Ian Penman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 455
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 21 post reply

Out of all the actors to play Superman/Superboy, the only one who came close to pulling off the 'Why everyone doesn't recognise Clark as Superman?' quandry was, in my opinion Christopher Reeve. Anybody got any other contenders?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
L’Homme Diabolique

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7595
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 22 post reply

Within the context of the movie, I think Reeve's performance as Clark was fine.  But if we're talking about 'realistic' -- not an important quality in superhero fiction, for me -- I think his bumbling take on the character is problematic.  If someone came into your office and started tripping over furniture and knocking things over, you're more apt to notice him.  That leads to possible recognition.

I think the best approach to Clark is to be as unassuming, as unnoticeable, as mild-mannered as possible.  I think George Reeves played Clark the best.  Of course, fashions of the day helped enormously.  The slightly over sized suits helped hide the physique and men's hats still being in style added to the disguise.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 8:15am | IP Logged | 23 post reply

THOM: Within the context of the movie, I think Reeve's performance as Clark was fine. But if we're talking about 'realistic' -- not an important quality in superhero fiction, for me -- I think his bumbling take on the character is problematic. If someone came into your office and started tripping over furniture and knocking things over, you're more apt to notice him. That leads to possible recognition.

I think the best approach to Clark is to be as unassuming, as unnoticeable, as mild-mannered as possible. I think George Reeves played Clark the best. Of course, fashions of the day helped enormously. The slightly over sized suits helped hide the physique and men's hats still being in style added to the disguise.

SER: I think Reeve's Kent became more comical in the third film but in the first, I don't recall his tripping over furniture and knocking things over. He's much more contained -- unassuming and mild-mannered, I think.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 1690
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 8:50am | IP Logged | 24 post reply

Reeve was great in Superman III. When Clark Kent visited Smallville, he carried himself noticeably, but subtly, different than in his Metropolis scenes.
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Brandon Frye
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 November 2004
Posts: 1086
Posted: 30 July 2013 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 25 post reply


 QUOTE:
"I think it's essential," he said. "Because if we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way that Lois has these direct interactions with Superman, and then doesn't recognize Clark sitting next to her in the office..."

If we're trying to base it in reality, there's no way a man can fly, see through solid objects, project heat from his eyes, is invulnerable.. etc. 

So odd that the people who have no problem accepting an alien being with superpowers suddenly scoff at the idea this being can disquise himself with a pair of glasses. 

I wonder, can people still laugh at Lucy Ricardo when she fools her own husband with a fake mustache or is that also not "realistic" enough? 


Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 80 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login