| Author |
|
Glenn Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3095
|
| Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:37am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I have a feeling that it is an intentional choice to "clean up" most of the artifacts seen on actual original art and to make the IDW AE pages appear to be more like high-quality photocopies. I could be wrong and I plan on asking Scott Dunbier himself if he, or someone else from IDW, doesn;t chime in on this issue first.
I own most of the AE's published to date: Rocketeer, Thor, Daredevil, Wally Wood, Kubert's Tarzan, JB's FF, the GI Joe, Neal Adams and Wrightson portfolios, Simonson's Alien and the aforementioned BWS Red Nails.
The Red Nails book has received a lot of criticism, some deserved, for it's page count, paper choice and design. But, by a wide margin the print quality of the original art scans is head and shoulders above the IDW line, IMO. According to the Genesis West folks, the semi-glossy paper was chosen because of the way it took the ink during printing. Every nuance of the original art, from BWS' ubiquitous blue line underdrawings to coffee stains to physical flaws on the boards themselves is preserved and visible in Red Nails. The paper itself is thicker and heavier than expected and even though it doesn't feel like bristol board, the experience of viewing original art is appreciated to a much greater degree than what I get from my IDW books.
In no way am I shilling for Genesis West and slamming IDW. Just commenting on the issue of preserving the nuances and character inherent in original art as published in the various Artist's Editions.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Shawn Harrington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
"The Red Nails book has received a lot of criticism, some deserved, for it's page count, paper choice and design. But, by a wide margin the print quality of the original art scans is head and shoulders above the IDW line, IMO. According to the Genesis West folks, the semi-glossy paper was chosen because of the way it took the ink during printing. Every nuance of the original art, from BWS' ubiquitous blue line underdrawings to coffee stains to physical flaws on the boards themselves is preserved and visible in Red Nails. The paper itself is thicker and heavier than expected and even though it doesn't feel like bristol board, the experience of viewing original art is appreciated to a much greater degree than what I get from my IDW books."
Well, well, then...! I had crossed this book off my Wish List because of the criticisms you mention... but now I'm going to have to reconsider it!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Shawn Harrington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
One of the main reasons the New Gods volume didn't click for me has been staring right at me the whole week I've had it, yet I didn't really grasp it until yesterday: the scanned images don't fill the pages they're printed on. I expected the images to go fully edge to edge / corner to corner on the book's paper; I didn't expect them to be in the middle of the page with white borders all around them. For me, that completely destroys the idea that a page from the book is a simulacrum of a page of the original art... which is what I thought IDW had been promising.
For those of you who don't have the book yet, each page measures approximately 12" x 17"; the image on each page measures 10 1/3" x 16".
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132410
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 7:23am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
One of the main reasons the New Gods volume didn't click for me has been staring right at me the whole week I've had it, yet I didn't really grasp it until yesterday: the scanned images don't fill the pages they're printed on. I expected the images to go fully edge to edge / corner to corner on the book's paper; I didn't expect them to be in the middle of the page with white borders all around them. For me, that completely destroys the idea that a page from the book is a simulacrum of a page of the original art... which is what I thought IDW had been promising.•• Taking the art all the way "to the edge" would mean CROPPING the art. If you want to see the whole page, it has to be printed with a border.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Shawn Harrington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
"Taking the art all the way "to the edge" would mean CROPPING the art."
I don't understand why that would be.
Take this image, for instance:
http://www.whatifkirby.com/gallery/comic-art-listings/new-go ds-issue-8-page-15
Why couldn't the four pointed corners of that page (not the panels but the page as a whole) be brought out to the four pointed corners of the book? Unless the book's aspect ratio is different from the original art, I don't see that anything would be lost.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132410
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Why couldn't the four pointed corners of that page (not the panels but the page as a whole) be brought out to the four pointed corners of the book?•• Are you being serious, or just deliberately obtuse? (Since you seem to have joined the Forum SOLELY to complain about these volumes, I suspect the latter.) LOOK at the page. Look at ANY of those Kirby pages. None of them are truly squared off. Just by looking at the image in the link, you can see the edges are not square to the art, and not square to the frame in which the site posted it. That's because those pages are already MANUALLY cropped. The printers commonly CUT the pages out of the frames in which they were held to be photographed. And whoever did the cutting worried not at all about straight edges. If you take the pages "to the edge" you will have to crop them, or leave slivers of the background visible.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4020
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
When picking up the volumes that I do, I am thrilled to see
what the original artwork looked like. I don't kid myself,
for a moment, that I am looking at original pages. There
are a few guys that I'd love to see get the AE treatment.
One of them, I know for a fact, cut down much of his own
paper for the pages to be drawn on. This, if focused upon,
will drive an observer nuts.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Shawn Harrington
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 7
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
"Are you being serious, or just deliberately obtuse? (Since you seem to have joined the Forum SOLELY to complain about these volumes, I suspect the latter.)"
I was definitely being serious. I may be obtuse, but it's not deliberate.
I joined this forum and others to discuss this book in part because I am trying to understand why I interpreted this quote from IDW's website differently from other people:
(The goal is to) "mimic as closely as possible the experience of viewing the actual original art—for instance, corrections and blue pencils. Each page is printed the same size as drawn, and the paper selected is as close as possible to the original art board."
I own three pages of original art; used to be more, but I had to sell off most of it quite a few years ago. Based on what I read at IDW's site, I thought it would be possible (if I wanted to do this), to pull pages out of their book, lay them alongside those three originals, and have to look twice to to be sure which were real and which were reproductions.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Why couldn't the four pointed corners of that page (not the panels but
the page as a whole) be brought out to the four pointed corners of the
book?
••
Are you being serious, or just deliberately obtuse? (Since you seem to
have joined the Forum SOLELY to complain about these volumes, I
suspect the latter.)
LOOK at the page. Look at ANY of those Kirby pages. None of them
are truly squared off. Just by looking at the image in the link, you can
see the edges are not square to the art, and not square to the frame
in which the site posted it.
That's because those pages are already MANUALLY cropped. The
printers commonly CUT the pages out of the frames in which they
were held to be photographed. And whoever did the cutting worried
not at all about straight edges.
If you take the pages "to the edge" you will have to crop them, or
leave slivers of the background visible.
==========
Yeah, I don't agree with this argument either. It's a book, not a
portfolio. Where I can see his point about the reproduction of the inks,
this is asking the format to be something it's not.
As I said the book gives me six plus issues of Kirby's work for about
$120. I couldn't afford a single page of Kirby original art. I think the
value for price is excellent.
Could the process be tweaked to give better variation in the blacks?
Possibly, but I have to imagine Scott Dunbier has looked at this from
every angle. From everything I've read, The Artist Editon project is his
baby.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14821
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Also, if you printed to the edge, wouldn't a lot of the art end up being stuck in the gutter?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
|
| Posted: 31 May 2014 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Also, if you printed to the edge, wouldn't a lot of the art end up being
stuck in the gutter?
=========
It isn't really a problem with Kirby's work. Except for the occasional
double page spread the artwork isn't full bleed.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132410
|
| Posted: 01 June 2014 at 5:48am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Traditionally, artists have not worked with the collected editions in mind. "Drawing for the trade" is not a phrase that has, as yet, found much traction!The basic page layout has not changed for decades. The SIZE of the original art has change, but the 2x3 proportions have not, and the art had been centered on the printed page. Not a problem when dealing with 16 page signatures bound into a 32, or 48, or 64 pages book. But when the page count gets into the 100+ range, there can be problems. The recent (and long awaited) HEROS THE SPARTAN collection was an example of what can go wrong. That strip, done in the early Sixties for the British tabloid comic EAGLE, was all double-page spreads, and collected into a normal books art AND dialog vanish into the fold. For a long time, I was borrowing Jack Kirby's later model of a first page splash followed by a double-page spread, but I found myself having to redesign (or abandon) this, knowing all my work was likely to end up collected. The first issue looked okay in the trade, but the deeper into the volume we went, the deeper into the fold went the art. Full bleed presents a similar problem. One of the many things I like about working thru IDW, in fact, is that they clump all their ads in the back of the book, so I know which side, left or right, a page is going to land on. I can balance my pages so important art elements stay clear of the fold in the trades. (I also don't have to worry about the ad department, ever heedless of the dramatic needs of a story, forcing the pages to appear in something other than the usual sequence, so a "reveal" intended for a left hand page, ends up on the right.)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
|
|
Topic Closed)
