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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4506
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| Posted: 29 May 2014 at 3:41am | IP Logged | 1
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The argument for guns was that these kinds of massacres would be lessened by gun ownership, but now there is now way to prevent it? Shifting argument.
If ever there was an issue where big business owns government it is here on the subject of guns. Gun owners often say that government is potentially harmful and gun ownership prevents oppression from government. In reality, government has been hijacked and the gun owners are simply assisting the hijackers. The thought that "dead kids don't trump 2nd amendment" is offensive. Nothing short of children from NRA members specifically targeted by some gun nut will ever change their minds and even that might not work.
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Michael Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 481
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| Posted: 29 May 2014 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 2
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Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14812
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| Posted: 29 May 2014 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 3
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Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect.
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And it had a handgun ban from 1982-2010, where the homicide numbers rose then fell. The takeaway being that gun control on the municipal level is useless when the rest of the state and the surrounding states have pretty lax laws. Any gun control should be on the national level.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 29 May 2014 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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Michael Kane. I called you out on it in another thread. Attribute your sources by providing a link where people can do their own research into just where your quotes are coming from if they so choose.
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Michael Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 481
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| Posted: 29 May 2014 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 5
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yes sir.
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: 30 May 2014 at 1:02am | IP Logged | 6
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Okay, that shows a graph where the writer (not the data) seems to assert that lifting the gun ban (in DC, not Chicago) somehow caused a drop in the murder rate when it had been falling for 15 years. Plus, it doesn't show what happened elsewhere at the time.
"Just the facts" can be very deceiving when bereft of other factual context.
When you query it, give it a couple seconds to generate a graph!
A query of "us homicide rate by year vs chicago" gets the following:
Please note (graph toward the bottom) there had been an increase around the country at the same time there was an increase in Chicago (and DC, as it happens). It's difficult to attribute the rise (in either city) to the gun ban being in place, due to a nation-wide rise that was obviously not subject to it.
Also note, the whole US graph is smoother because the sample is much larger. City-size graphs are going to have a lot of random variation present (noise) relative to a whole country.
You can even scale-adjust queries so as to get time-correlated graphs to overlap (so you can see the order of small changes in one vs large changes in the other). Like here's the overall crime rate overlayed with the homicide rate x 500. "chicago crime rate vs (homicide rate *500)"
or, for the whole US: "united states crime rate vs (homicide rate *500)"
This is an interesting query "united states crime rate vs per capita income"
There is a free iPhone/Android app for Wolfram Alpha. Incredibly useful. Not quite as useful as a full copy of Mathematica, but still an incredible resource to have on you.
You can ask it simple things like "stock price of hewlett packard" or more complex math problems like, "integrate (x^2 sin(x)) from 0 to 2pi" or even "airspeed of unladen swallow"
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30884
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| Posted: 30 May 2014 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 7
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Looks like Oklahoma City is joining in the stupidity.
Edited to make link active~Matt
Edited by Matt Reed on 30 May 2014 at 9:50am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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So true...
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4940
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| Posted: 05 June 2014 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 9
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This was the footer comment of someone on another forum I read.
The Constitution does NOT grant us the right to keep and bear arms.....it acknowledges it.......its very important to understand the difference. The minute that we accept the premiss that the government grants us this right, we must also accept that it can rescind this right. The right to keep and bear arms, as correctly noted by The Founders, is given to us by God....period, end of discussion
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