Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
Star Wars
Byrne Robotics > Star Wars << Prev Page of 73
Topic: Star Wars - The Force Awakens - SPOILERS begin pg 38 Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
David Spurlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 263
Posted: 14 December 2016 at 10:34am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Well, here I am again with what I hope will be my final attempt to convey what I felt was wrong with TFA. I can't stop thinking about why I have such a disconnection with this film while so many others love it. It was on my mind again last night while I was giving my kids their nightly baths and it kind of clicked what was wrong with it, stagnation.

It wreaks of stagnation. It's supposed to be 30 or so years after ROTJ but nothing significant has changed. The technology that we watched evolve through the prequels and the OT just stopped advancing. The First Order are just using the same ships that the Empire was using so many years ago. The Resistance is using slightly updated X-Wings. Nothing has changed. Even the main characters haven't grown any. If anything, they have just regressed into inferior doppelgangers of their former selves.

I'm not a huge fan of the prequels, but I can at lease admire what GL was attempting to do. He at least tried to progress his story and have his characters grow and show an evolving galaxy that had a wonderful lived in feeling. All of that was lost in TFA. It may look roughly like the SW universe but it didn't feel much like the SW universe. It was all smoke and mirrors to hide the weak story that falls apart upon closer scrutiny.




Edited by David Spurlock on 14 December 2016 at 10:35am
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13405
Posted: 14 December 2016 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Agree with all of the above.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2482
Posted: 14 December 2016 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"Well, whether you like it or not, STAR WARS is going from a limited series to an endless series, so what can you do?"

I don't appreciate that either, but it was EMPIRE that took it from a self-contained film into a "SAGA!!" and eventually the prequel/sequel/reboot/spin-off mess we're saddled with now. The trilogy made Obi-Wan a liar, Vader a sympathetic figure, and Luke just a bit incestuous...things we didn't want any of these people being...

But the magic seems to have been replaced by something safe, lazy, hollow, and oh-so-corporate. Meh.

I feel this thing went "corporate" when EMPIRE got the green light.

You say TFA doesn't "feel like" a Star Wars movie. I'll argue that nothing that's followed the original, for better or worse, really has.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4375
Posted: 14 December 2016 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I go along with what Brian Rhodes says about the sequels. TFA is not the best
sequel, but it is far from the worst. The criticisms that it must bear are hardly
unique to TFA - all the sequels suffer from nostalgia-rot (even the first sequel).
I think the unique quality of TFA is that nothing from it is actually by Lucas, so
sifting through the ashes does not reveal anything about the "Saga"'s origins.

As a kid who was there when Star Wars came out in '77, a vast part of the
authenticity of the original movie was protected at the time by the mere fact
you couldn't see Star Wars anywhere (I mean ANYWHERE) but in the movie
theater.

And that was an almost painful fact for myself and many kids like me. I yearned
and dreamed of somehow getting the ability to see that dang movie again
almost every day. The conversation among friends often slipped into
daydreams of someday being able to see Star Wars in our homes.

The extended Saga, including TFA, for better or worse, all feels like the fever
dreams of kids starved for more Star Wars. Outside of the ill-conceived cheat
of saying Vader is Luke's father, there is hardly anything to the sequels that
stands up as more than nostalgia or one stripe or another.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
L’Homme Diabolique

Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7500
Posted: 14 December 2016 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I agree with Brian & Mark.  I mean, hey, you like what you like, but so many of the criticisms leveled against TFA are just as true of the sequels and prequels.  All of the STAR WARS movies kinda suck, the original (in isolation) aside.
Back to Top profile | search | www | email
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 4777
Posted: 15 December 2016 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply


About halfway thru THE FORCE AWAKENS now, for only the first real time since it's theatrical release last year (I've only seen bits & pieces with my son, since getting him a copy for this past Easter)...

Whether or not you love it or hate it (or, like me, are in-between about it), I'll say again that TFA is still one of the most egregious examples EVER of big-budget fan-wank... the myriad cutesy wink-wink lines and visual callbacks are downright embarrassing.

I know Abrams claims it's SUPPOSED to be intentional (for no good reason that I can discern), but Jesus H. Christ...!


Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13405
Posted: 15 December 2016 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

This is what I'm saying. We'll see how ROGUE ONE turns out, but I have the sinking feeling that the franchise may be stuck in nostalgia-auto-fellatio mode for some time to come. I'm already sick of it.

George Lucas gosh-darn well didn't stoop to constant wink-wink references and pandering in the sequels and prequels, dagnabbit. There were a few bits, here and there, but he was always trying new things. Even when he failed spectacularly, I still respected that fact that he tried new things, and didn't just give the fans more of what they thought they wanted.

Of course, now it seems that Disney is giving me things I definitely don't want by bending over backwards to give fans what they think they want. Sigh.

I'm tellin ya, I think VIII is gonna be the film which makes or breaks this new era. They can't coast on nostalgia and self-referentialism forever. Something has to give.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 4777
Posted: 16 December 2016 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply


Can I just add:

11 minutes of end credits??? That's gotta be a new record, yes?


Back to Top profile | search
 
David Spurlock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 263
Posted: 19 December 2016 at 12:57pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'm tellin ya, I think VIII is gonna be the film which makes or breaks this new era.
_____________________________________________

With VIII, I'm waiting to see if there is an actually "story" for this new trilogyor not. As it stands now, I haven't tried and I can't even imagine trying to watch parts 1-7 without a huge WTF moment happening between 6 & 7. At least with 1-6 you have a cohesive story(except for the glaring fact that Ben lies to Luke about his father in ANH for absolutely no reason). I'm really starting to see that Jar Jar Abrams has either a love for leaving out huge chunks of stories/movies or he just doesn't know how to even write a good story/movie. I can see trying to leave out some obvious plot points but to have a whole movie/story be nothing but an unsolved mystery is just poor writing.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5733
Posted: 19 December 2016 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

"They can't coast on nostalgia and self-referentialism forever. Something has to give."

Supernatural is in its 12th season I think. 
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 9531
Posted: 19 December 2016 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

to have a whole movie/story be nothing but an unsolved mystery is just poor writing.
--------------------------
But the mystery box! The MYSTERY BOX!!!!

JJ doesn't seem to care about rewatch value. The mystery keeps you interested enough on first viewing and teases you into the next installment, so JJ may consider his job fulfilled, but he's also left the heavylifting storywise to Rian Johnson.

I like to be optimistic that Johnson knows a thing or two about telling a proper tale, but the truth is I haven't seen enough films from him to be truly confident. I liked Looper, I liked Brick, but that's all I've seen.


Back to Top profile | search
 
James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 3808
Posted: 20 December 2016 at 2:21am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

If the fan theory that did the rounds over the summer turns out to be true, VIII might actually be my breaking point with that era of Star Wars. I am really hoping that what I read was wrong
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1822
Posted: 28 December 2016 at 9:41am | IP Logged | 13 post reply

Greg: Sure, I'll check out future installments and judge them on a case-by-case basis, but the magic seems to have been replaced by something safe, lazy, hollow, and oh-so-corporate. Meh.

****

Greg, I don't know what you do for a living, but I bet you've noticed that Corporate America places a great deal of value on the concept of The Brand. The Brand called STAR WARS is worth a gargantuan amount of money to its corporate owner, Disney.

As you and others here have pointed out at great length, TFA and ROGUE ONE both trade very heavily in STAR WARS nostalgia. I submit that this is not because J.J. Abrams or anyone else was given free reign to produce the most elaborate fanfic ever, or because Gareth Edwards just couldn't control his urge to include that Dr. Evazan/Ponda Baba cameo. It's because Disney is playing it safe, protecting the all-important Brand. They're doing what has already been proven to work. Aesthetic concerns don't enter into the equation, and the sensibilities of fans definitely don't enter into it. Only the profits matter--and TFA brought in, what, $2 billion in ticket sales?

Nothing is going to change. The movies will become--hell, have ALREADY become--the cinematic equivalent of Big Macs or Bud Light: made to a proven formula for an audience that wants exactly the same thing as they got last time. They'll do huge box office and sell container-ship loads of tie-in merchandise and become a regular cultural event, like the Super Bowl or 24 hours of A CHRISTMAS STORY on TNT every year. If the public's appetite for the product should ever diminish, STAR WARS simply goes on the shelf for a while, and eventually Disney warms it up again, a generation down the line, for a fresh new audience. And those of us who got on the ride back in 1977 will grouse about how much better it was in the old days, which will be true.

But we'll never get any more magic. Grace notes here and there, maybe, but no magic, because you can't make magic on an automated assembly line or in the back of a fast-food restaurant.

Incidentally, I'm sorry to admit that I feel this cynical about STAR WARS, especially on the day after Carrie Fisher died...but I guess I do. And, boy, do I hate that.

Edited by Ted Downum on 28 December 2016 at 9:45am
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13405
Posted: 28 December 2016 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 14 post reply

As you and others here have pointed out at great length, TFA and ROGUE ONE both trade very heavily in STAR WARS nostalgia. I submit that this is not because J.J. Abrams or anyone else was given free reign to produce the most elaborate fanfic ever, or because Gareth Edwards just couldn't control his urge to include that Dr. Evazan/Ponda Baba cameo. It's because Disney is playing it safe, protecting the all-important Brand. They're doing what has already been proven to work. Aesthetic concerns don't enter into the equation, and the sensibilities of fans definitely don't enter into it. Only the profits matter--and TFA brought in, what, $2 billion in ticket sales? 
++++++*

Yep, this is pretty much what it boils down to, and what I figured would happen, back in 2012, when the buyout was announced.
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1822
Posted: 28 December 2016 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 15 post reply

I suppose it's madness to hope that Disney--somehow, someday--goes to the wall, and the Lucas properties fall to somebody else.

And Marvel Comics, too, for that matter.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13405
Posted: 28 December 2016 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 16 post reply

I suppose it's madness to hope that Disney--somehow, someday--goes to the wall, and the Lucas properties fall to somebody else.
++++++++

I dunno--it could be worse. Just imagine if Lucas had sold the rights to, say, Cannon Films, back in the 80s. At least Disney has the money and power to protect and maintain the brand, even if it means homogenizing it. Could be worse, y'know?


Edited by Greg Kirkman on 28 December 2016 at 10:43am
Back to Top profile | search | email
 
Ted Downum
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1822
Posted: 28 December 2016 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 17 post reply

I suppose you're right, Greg. If there's one thing life has taught me to believe, it's that it could ALWAYS be worse!
Back to Top profile | search
 
Monte Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 10 October 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 149
Posted: 25 January 2017 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 18 post reply

James Woodcock wrote:
"If the fan theory that did the rounds over the summer turns out to be true, VIII might actually be my breaking point with that era of Star Wars. I am really hoping that what I read was wrong"

Does the theory your referencing start with an R and end with an O?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 24277
Posted: 25 January 2017 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 19 post reply

???
Back to Top profile | search
 
John Popa
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 March 2008
Posts: 2613
Posted: 11 March 2017 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 20 post reply

The best analysis of the "Star Wars" sale to Disney is someone who said George Lucas sold "Star Wars" to the only people who could possibly afford it.
Back to Top profile | search
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

<< Prev Page of 73
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login