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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 1
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The other night, on his "news" show, John Oliver made a passing (and snarky) comment about people who get upset when non-White actors are cast as FICTIONAL CHARACTERS, (emphasis his)This earned an epic eye roll from me, of course, and sent my tired old brain rumbling down pathways that are, by now, all too familiar. This time, tho, I found myself landing in a spot I had not visited before. Of course I object to race-swapping in movies (which is something very different from "colorblind casting"), and I wondered how far Oliver would be comfortable going with his contempt for those who share my views. If, for instance, there was a remake of GONE WITH THE WIND, would it be perfectly acceptable to cast Will Smith as Rhett Butler?
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 2
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This has become a hot topic with the recent FANTASTIC FOUR reboot.... seems "race swapping" in the casting process is the new Hollywood gimmick. Where IS the line drawn here??
-C!
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Fictional characters should always be depicted how the author/artist originally intended.
If no description is given of the character's appearance. Than I'm perfectly fine with casting any race in the part. As long as there is some logic to the casting. It still must be believable.
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2174
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 4
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I do not think it would be OK to cast Storm, Power Man, Black Panther, or for that matter, Oliver Wendell Jones as white. Even in fiction, these things sometimes do matter. Fictional characters aren't just made-up non-existent people. Characters aren't people at all. They have symbolic value in the story they are in. Change too much, and you are saying something different. I.e., you are telling a different story.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 5
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I can't wait for Justin Bieber to get cast as The Black Panther. Turn about is fair play I say.
The media would be up in arms over the casting. Of course they'll still miss the point about race swapping. But maybe it will open up some eyes.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 6
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If you say you think Professor X should be bald or Superman should be tall or Jean Grey should be a redhead, not many people would blink an eye. Yet if you say a character's skin color -- another physical characteristic -- should stay the same, charges of racism are almost inevitable.
Edited by Thom Price on 10 June 2014 at 10:20am
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 7
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Perhaps creators need to go back to basics when they decide on a course like "Faithfull Adaptation".
Personally, I take this to mean a movie, book, etc, that is changed so that it can be presented in another form yet remain true to the original.
"West Side Story" claims merely to be inspired by "Romeo and Juliet" yet I would argue that is a faithfull adaptation in deed if not in intent.
My friend Delia, who studied theatre and now lives in Barbados, intends to stage an Othello adaptation with race -- and perhaps gender -- swapping.
In musing about what constitutes "true to the original", I wouldn't go as far as insisting that the adaptors subject themselves to a clinical dissection of the original's plot, situation, and dramatic elements as they are juxtaposed on their psycho-socio-historical contexts -- the work's "genome" -- before being allowed to adapt.
And so much of what we consider an original is itself adapted -- faithfully or not -- from an earlier source.
What grates most is seeing a beloved "brand name" being used strictly for the sake of brand recognition. Tom Cruise's "Mission Impossible" film series comes to mind.
Gender or race-swapping doesn't bother me when it's clear the character is basically gender-or-race neutral.
By race/gender neutral I mean a character whose contribution to the work is not predicated on race/gender. For example, what is "white" about "Perry White" given that the character's main function is to hand out assignments to Lois or Clark, and preserve the journalistic integrity of The Planet? People management and professional integrity are not gender/race-based characteristics.
Edited by Jesus Garcia on 10 June 2014 at 10:55am
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6097
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 8
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JB: If, for instance, there was a remake of GONE WITH THE WIND, would it be perfectly acceptable to cast Will Smith as Rhett Butler?
**
I think the "slippery slope" of this kind of thinking will soon reach a point where even this example will not sound ludicrous to people.
Inherent to the idea of casting non-white actors in traditionally white roles is that whatever rewriting is necessary to make that work is, inherently, a worthy endeavor.
I already hear the "argument" that Rhett could be black, and the story would simply have "more meaning" with an inter-racial romance "when such things were frowned upon." Nevermind historical accuracy or artistic intent-- the point seems to be that race should NEVER be a boundary. No matter the reason. (Unless money or political power is involved).
Edited by Mark Haslett on 10 June 2014 at 11:06am
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11247
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 9
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It has annoyed me recently to see numerous times on various sites,that anyone who disagrees with the casting of Johnny Storm is racist.It`s not a matter of race,it`s a matter of 50 plus years of a character being portrayed a certain way,and how that portrayal relates to his fellow characters ie:-family in the case of FF.I wonder if there would be an outcry if Luke Cage was cast white? If they wanted to cast a black person in FF,they could have created a new supporting character,or is it a cynical ruse to attract the black customer? After all,if they were desperate to include a minority character they could have used Wyatt Wingfoot,or is native American too minority to bring in the $$$$?
On a related note,i see in the news that after the accusations of bribery and corruption regarding the FIFFA world cup in Quatar,the U.K. press has been accused of being racist.It seems that in today`s world the accusation of racism is the last resort of the scoundrel.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132240
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 10
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...is it a cynical ruse to attract the black customer?••• Yes. There were articles about this decades ago. Hollywood had noticed that the steady spread of VCRs and home entertainment systems, not to mention cable movie channels, meant more and more affluent White people were staying home to watch movies. More and more movie theaters were becoming the province of the less affluent, which Hollywood read as minorities, especially Black people. So, once again something positive -- a greater presence of minorities in movies -- sprang from the Box Office, not any sort of desire by Hollywood to "do the right thing."
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4721
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 11
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It has annoyed me recently to see numerous times on various sites, that anyone who disagrees with the casting of Johnny Storm is racist. It`s not a matter of race, it`s a matter of 50 plus years of a character being portrayed a certain way,and how that portrayal relates to his fellow characters ie:-family in the case of FF.****** Completely agree.... it's amazing to me that most people find that point HARD to comprehend. I have no problem with racial diversity, but it should be originally conceived that way.
-C!
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3488
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| Posted: 10 June 2014 at 12:24pm | IP Logged | 12
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In John Oliver's case, being a Brit, he may not really have an understanding of the depth of racial history in this country and the way it still shapes identity even in the 21st century.
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