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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 22 July 2014 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 1
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I just thought of something. With Hollywood's Black Human Torch and
Marvel's Black Captain America, we only need a Black Namor to get
the Black Invaders! And, they could be lead by Black Nick Fury.
This has happened enough times in the last ten years that we could
actually take an existing team, plug in there raceswapped characters,
and have an all Black version of them. Wasn't there a Black version of
Bucky in the late '80's? I wonder what he's doing right now?
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 22 July 2014 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 2
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He changed his name to Battlestar.
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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5630
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| Posted: 22 July 2014 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 3
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The black Bucky made sense since there was no Bucky in the '80s and he was a partner for the new Captain America (Steve Rogers had quit) that just happened to be black.
I think this is similar to Roger Stern's Captain Marvel. She was a character who just happened to take over the name when no one else was using it, and not a "black version" of the original.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 22 July 2014 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 4
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The house that Stan and Jack built has become the trailer Evel Knievel jumped.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8376
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| Posted: 22 July 2014 at 11:29pm | IP Logged | 5
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From what I understand, Sam is taking over as Captain
America because Steve is being depowered AND aged. Last
time Steve was depowered, he didn't age....
Frankly, I think what they should have done was make Sam
Cap....and Steve the new Thor. After all, Steve can lift
Mjolnir.
I do like the new Iron Man armor, but I can't believe
they're turning Tony Stark into an asshole....again.
So the only cliches I can think of that they haven't hit
on yet are resurrecting a dead character, having someone
come out as gay, and turning a villain into a hero.
(Since Stark becoming a jerk is close enough to hero
going villain) Have I missed any others?
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 12:17am | IP Logged | 6
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So the only cliches I can think of that they haven't hit
on yet are resurrecting a dead character, having someone
come out as gay, and turning a villain into a hero.
(Since Stark becoming a jerk is close enough to hero
going villain) Have I missed any others?
++++++++
Don't forget the introductions of long-lost relatives and illegitimate
children.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7654
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 1:16am | IP Logged | 7
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This new Thor.What's the problem? Happened before. For those complaining, do you dislike the Ron Frenz / Defalco run? I know it's been done before. But lots of things in comics have been done before. I don't have a problem with the concept. I don't expect it to be permanent, but it will probably last around 5 years knowing how long things cycle in the current climate.
Having said all that, I won't be buying it because I gave up a while ago and find that many things going on in Marvel at the moment I don't like. For instance I have a much bigger beef with Original Sin's concept than a female Thor. Just as I had a big beef with Civil War. Those fundamentally go against the character of the existing characters. Creating a derivation for a spell I can live with. Of course, the problem comes when the derivation sticks around after the story is finished.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8376
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 1:24am | IP Logged | 8
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Speaking of Civil War, the one good thing about Steve no
longer being Captain America is that he'll now have time to
go on Myspace and watch NASCAR!
(I seriously still want to slap the writer who came up with
that crap.....)
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2179
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 2:07am | IP Logged | 9
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Of course none of this stuff is permanent. The problem is that instead of coming up with new stories, Marvel's current changes smell like their version of Crisis without out the pretension of a house cleaning. It's hard to clean house when you don't actually take anything out and just rearrange it.It's not that the stories are being badly told or anything, they just seem like we've heard all this before. (Which goes for DC too).
Is it me, or do the vast majority of these characters have roots in the 60's or before? I will be happy to be proven wrong here, but apart from the massive creative explosion from that decade, we seem to have fewer and fewer successful new characters as the decades pass.
Are the big two so vested in the Old, that the closest they can come to New is stunts and gimmicks? Are they capable of coming up with new experimental books, or have they themselves already saturated the market with what they believe "sells" that they feel can't risk it?
It seems clear that the Big Two means Superhero books to all the Muggles. Have the Big Two trapped themselves? Are we doomed to just talking about the appropriateness of a given Costume Change and other minutiae?
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 5:39am | IP Logged | 10
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This new Thor.
What's the problem? Happened before. For those complaining, do you
dislike the Ron Frenz / Defalco run?
I know it's been done before. But lots of things in comics have been
done before. I don't have a problem with the concept. I don't expect it
to be permanent, but it will probably last around 5 years knowing how
long things cycle in the current climate.
========
James, this gimmick of race and gender swapping puts on display
everything that's wrong with today's comics.
First- using gender and race swapping to create diversity instead of
creating NEW minority and female characters. Why does anyone have
to lose characters they love to create a sad attempt at diversifying
there stable of characters. If that's not what this is, then why go on
THE VIEW to promote the new female Thor.
Second-It only for a little while. You mentioned five years. You don't
think it would really go that long do you. That USED to be enough
time to have your core readership almost completely turn over. I'm
guessing two at MAX. But, we all know it's a gimmick that's not
forever. Why promote these things like, "This isn't a story. This is the
new deal, the new status quo." Really, you can't have your cake and
eat it too. You can't make the aging fanboy your target demographic
and continue to pull this kind of stunt. We've seen it all. I feel like
Vince McMahon is trying to convince a 41 year old me the Pro
Wrestling is completely real. This is one of the perks of targeting the
10-15 year old. In five years the crowd will turn over and you can pull
the same stunt again for the next one. If you keep the same crowd for
30 years, those stunts don't work after a while.
Third-Legacy, Can you remember the last time Thor wore the costume
Kirby gave him? I can't. Does it matter? Yes and no. I doesn't matter
for a story, but I have son. He loves these characters. What kind of
Marvel will he get to read? How much damage is being caused right
now? I think about these things. Why? I used to get a real rush being
able to pick up the latest issue of a Marvel comic. My friends and I
would read them and talk about how cool it was. Right now he's five
and loves the characters. The ones he knows are from
AVENGERS:EMH. We watch the DVD's all the time. What happens if
the first time he encounters the Marvel Universe, it's SO different, that
he doesn't recognize it and moves on? What if that happens to a lot
of potential new readers.
This nonsense started about 13 years ago. The 15 year old reader
then, is now 28, almost in his/her 30's. I left Marvel behind at age 40.
Seems to be about the same time for a lot of the current
disenchanted. How long till the younger aging fanboys have had
enough and leave too? I'm guessing at best, 10 years. Then, that 15
year old in 2001 will be 38. If the aging fanboy leaves and the new
reader can't recognize it, who going to be reading?
Today's Marvel writers seem to have too much self importance or ego.
Their stories are what's important not the character's legacy. They
don't care that they are caretakers of these characters and that
someone else will have to write them. It truly is Fan Fiction.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 6:43am | IP Logged | 11
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…do the vast majority of these characters have roots in the 60's or before? I will be happy to be proven wrong here, but apart from the massive creative explosion from that decade, we seem to have fewer and fewer successful new characters as the decades pass.•• When I was getting into the business, circa 1974, a recurrent mantra was "I'm not going to create any characters at Marvel! No way am I going to risk giving them the next Spider-Man!" Of course, typically of the skewed egos in comics, this was most often spoken by people who had no chance at all of creating "the next Spider-Man." But they were sure they would. Some people continued to create characters, tho, and, in fact, "the next Spider-Man" managed to arrive without any fanfare at all -- Wolverine. Took him several years to rise to the zenith. (As I've mentioned before, when I started on X-MEN one of the first things Chris wanted to do was write Wolverine out of the book!) For the most part, tho, the characters created in the Seventies and onward tended to be derivative (kindly) or just plain lame. The glory days were very much over.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 23 July 2014 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 12
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Superhero comics, especially Marvel, have always had an
element of soap opera but they rarely veered into the
over-the-top melodrama of soaps at their campiest.
However, it seems to me that in the past twenty years or
so , they have lost the balance that the masters (Lee,
Kirby, JB, and so on) gave us -- compelling subplots,
dramatic cliffhangers, illusion of change, and so on.
Suddenly, it wasn't surprising to see plot elements that
you'd find on a daytime soap: Norman Osborn had sex with
Gwen Stacy and she had his illegitimate children; Tony
Stark is now behaving incredibly out of character during
Civil War (face - heel turn) for no real reason, Thor is
now a woman, and so on...
Of course, Stephen Colbert wouldn't have a soap opera
star on his show to promote the latest ridiculous plot
contrivance that will be undone or forgotten in a year.
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