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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 1
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I wish Santa Claus and god existed. I want Santa to exist because I wish there was "Magic" in the world.
I want god to exist because. I don't want to die and that be the end of my existence.
I have imagine that is the reason why most people who believe in god do it. They don't want to accept that when it's over it's over.
Ultimately I can't lie myself into believing in god. I hope that there is something more. Whether it's "god" or something else. But it's not very likely.
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Marc Cheek Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 June 2014 Location: United States Posts: 1785
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 2
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I think you hit on it Anthony. Many people cannot comprehend that this life is it, and are look to religion for that hope in an afterlife. It's tough to grasp when you've been raised to believe otherwise.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132286
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 3
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I long ago contented myself with the fact that the stuff of which I am made is literally as old as the universe, and was once in the hearts of stars!When I die, I want to be "recycled" in some way that effectively returns my parts to the environment. Currently thinking of donating my leftovers to a forensic boneyard. Whatever happens, tho, I will go back into the mix, and some day will be part of other things, beings, worlds. . . . That's pretty darn cool, even if ->I<- won't be there to appreciate it.
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Thom Price Byrne Robotics Member
LHomme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7593
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 4
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I found myself ponder a variation of this just last night. I read an online comic strip about a little kid and the 'monsters' in his closet. I found myself thinking that when you're a kid you create all kinds of silly defenses against the imaginary monsters: if the closet door is closed, I'm safe!
That's basically what religion is -- ancient goat herders' version of keeping the closet door shut. Amazing that 3,000 years later people are still clinging to it.
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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 5
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Two weeks ago my aunt passed away. She was in the hospital and had been in a coma for a few weeks. I thought well assuming while she was in a coma she really wasn't aware of the situation. She was spared the experience of dying or knowing it was coming. So as far as she was aware she never died. Good for her in that respect.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 28 July 2014 at 10:07am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132286
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 6
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Life is an ongoing process of review. Moment to moment, our memories "refresh" themselves, keeping us up to date. (Some think this is a probable cause of deja vu.)But the hard, cold, scary evidence, is that when we die, there's no review. We don't get to sit back and think "Huh! So that was my death!" We are GONE. And that's a very tough nugget to swallow. So it's only natural that people look for something beyond that terminal moment. So continuation that someone makes SENSE of the madness of life. It HAS to be there. We WANT it to be there. But in thousands upon thousands of years of searching, no one, no culture, no religion, no science, has ever been able to show even a glimmer of a hope that WE don't end when we die. But we do.* ______________________ * I've often observed that even out language resists the notion that death is the end. When we say "My father is dead," there is a slender sense of this being some kind of active state. He IS dead. It's something he's DOING, right now. Which is why I prefer to say "My father died."
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4506
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 7
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I've always liked Douglas Adams' babel fish argument for disproving the existence of god:
JB, your similarities between god and santa along with the passage to adulthood are just one of the things I have taken away from the JBF that makes me a better person. I love pointing it out to people on occasion.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132286
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 8
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The first two chapters of Genesis seriously contradict each other, and it's all downhill from there. Yet supposedly intelligent people cling to these fairytales. Perhaps for the unbearable air of smugness some seem to derive from it all.
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Gene Best Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4598
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 9
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Coincidentally, when believers ask me why I don't believe in God anymore, I cite my "Santa Moment" - looking at a present under our tree and noticing that Santa's handwriting was the same as my mother's. I started asking questions and Santa was no more. No one "converted" me to A-Santa-ism. Same thing with theism. One day, I just started really thinking about my faith - because my faith actually mattered to me - and I started exploring religions, reading Atheist debates, etc. It was a quiet awakening.
The weird thing is that I don't try to "convert" anyone to my world view - and yet, when I tell my story to my friends who are still believers, many kinda shake their heads in disapproval. Some have outright said they feel sorry for me. And some have gotten actually angry with me. I suppose I understand their disappointment - but I don't understand their anger.
Edited by Gene Best on 28 July 2014 at 12:33pm
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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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but I don't understand their anger.```````````` I can understand the anger. Imagine the contentment a true believer has when it comes to death. They believe they will go to heaven or whatever other afterlife they believe. It frees up your mind. But someone comes along and puts doubt into their head. Suddenly their illusions get shattered.
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Brian Peck Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1709
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 11
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The weird thing is that I don't try to "convert" anyone to my world view - and yet, when I tell my story to my friends who are still believers, many kinda shake their heads in disapproval. Some have outright said they feel sorry for me. And some have gotten actually angry with me. I suppose I understand their disappointment - but I don't understand their anger.
**************
They are angry because the realize your argument makes more sense then the one they subscribe to for their religion. But they can not let go of their fairy tale.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 132286
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Posted: 28 July 2014 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 12
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The idea that we came from nothing and ultimately end as nothing -- well, it's a toughie. That the whole Universe is just a gigantic cosmic fluke... It makes some people too aware of their utter insignificance. Ahh, but a Universe* created by God -- a God who takes a personal interest in each and every one of us, THAT'S much more palatable! ------------------- * A big problem lies in the cosmos that God created. Since the Bible was written, the "world" has expanded much beyond the horizon, and the stars have been pushed back into deep space, to become blazing suns in their own right. The God of the Bible is much too SMALL. But we can't really make him bigger without him becoming Somebody Else.
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