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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 20 August 2014 at 11:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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In my ongoing read-through of FANTASTIC FOUR from its start, I
recently reached issues 72-77, which essentially served as a back door
pilot for a Silver Surfer series, which did indeed began publication
shortly thereafter.
So, I took a little detour, and read the entire Surfer series for the very
first time. I must say, it was a very interesting read, largely because of
all the questions and implications it raised.
Some have cited the series as the straw that broke the camel's back in
regards to Kirby's deteriorating relationship with Marvel. Not only did
Stan Lee take the character away from him and hand him over to John
Buscema (whose work in the series is gorgeous, by the way), but
he completely reinvented the character.
Kirby's Surfer was very much an angel in exile, an innocent alien--
perhaps even one created wholly by Galactus--learning about
humanity. Lee's Surfer was a self-pitying Space Jesus. Further, he was
essentially a human who came from paradise, and had become an
enlightened alien trapped on a mad world.
It's very clear that Stan was trying to force the now-proven Marvel
Formula onto the Surfer, by giving him romantic angst and having him
hated and feared by humanity.
The series was also Stan's chance to shine without the brilliance of
geniuses like Kirby and Ditko, although the failure of that effort seems
to have been proven by the fact that the book was cancelled after 18
issues.
While I enjoyed the series, its reasons for failure seem fairly evident--
the Surfer constantly bemoans his fate and gets into tussles with
various threats, which lead him to loathe the evils of humanity that
much more. Lather, rinse, repeat.
This all brings to mind those nagging questions that chip away at my
childhood dreams...was the magic of Marvel really because of plotter-
pencillers like Kirby and Ditko? Did Stan really misappropriate a great
Kirby character, only to run him into the ground (to the point of bringing
Kirby aboard at the 11th hour in an attempt to salvage him)?
Not to derail the main topic of this post, but the whole question of
attributing proper--or improper--credit to Lee and Kirby has been
crossing my path a lot, recently. I tend to think that many are a bit too
quick to vilify Lee and enshrine Kirby, and that the reality of it is that
Marvel wouldn't have worked without the BOTH of the them
collaborating.
Anyway...thoughts? Like the SILVER SURFER series? Hate it? Meh?
Do you prefer Kirby or Buscema? The innocent alien, or the nobleman
from Zenn-La who chose to serve Galactus?
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Tony Centofanti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 212
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| Posted: 20 August 2014 at 11:37pm | IP Logged | 2
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The Silver Surfer is in my top 5 favorite comic characters. They're not ranked per se, but he's in an elite group for me.
I have a framed poster of Big John's cover to Silver Surfer #1 in my living room. I can glance up at it and see it as I'm typing now. It's one hell of a drawing. I love Lee and Buscema's run. Great, great art. Plus, it had Silver Surfer vs Thor, one of the very best super-hero brawls of all time.
Ultimately though, I prefer the Silver Surfer of his early appearances by Lee and Kirby. I prefer the more alien look to the Surfer. Also, the sense of unpredictability to the Surfer's actions, and his overall child-like demeanor.
Perhaps most importantly, as I look at that early Silver Surfer as a creation of Galactus, his betrayal of Galactus carries more dramatic weight to me. That the inherent nobility of the human spirit could cause the Silver Surfer to betray his master/creator, as opposed to perhaps Norrin being touched past his altered memories and reminded of his own humanity.
I should say, I don't dislike Norrin Radd at all. It's just a preference between two great origin stories or interpretations of character.
Also, Greg, if you want to read something very helter-skelter, check out the Silver Surfer graphic novel from the late 70s. That one seemingly has both versions in one story!
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 20 August 2014 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 3
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As a huge Silver Surfer fan, I have a love/hate relationship with the series. I still bought the omnibus when it was released, even though I'd read the series before in Essentials. It goes without saying that Buscema's art is gorgeous.
While it's true that the musings on morality and philosophizing did grow stale fast, the main problem with the series is that you essentially have a Ferrari in the Surfer and Stan insisted on keeping him parked in the garage. I grew up on the late 80's/early 90's Englehart/Starlin/Lim run and this, to me, is the REAL classic Surfer series. While it can't really be questioned that the Surfer's exile on Earth was essential to the development of the character, it by no means excuses keeping the greatest cosmic superhero of all-timed stuck on Earth for 20 years!
It's one of those series I do like, but the underlying philosophy was just wrong for the character. I would have much preferred to see how Kirby developed the character without Stan's strangely overbearing obsession for the character getting in the way. (I of course would still want Stan's dialog!)
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 12:02am | IP Logged | 4
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Retconning the Surfer into a former humanoid made no sense, and retroactively stripped the original FF story of much of its power. I hate the idea. Instead of discovering the value of humanity and then wanting to help save it, the Surfer becomes a guy who apparently just forgot about the value of humanity for awhile.
Stan, who generally was so gifted at making likable, relatable characters, made the Surfer into someone extremely unappealing. It's one thing for a new creature who is learning about human interaction to be confused, puzzled, and even angered by greed and social injustice. But when the Norrin Radd Surfer preaches against those things, his status as a former humanoid makes him just seem judgmental and arrogant. He comes across like an American in France, bitching about how everybody is rude to him. And it certainly doesn't help that when he's not complaining about social injustice he's whining about being separated from Shalla Bal.
The series reads like it's trying too hard to say something profound, rather than simply entertain. And it winds up failing at both.
Beautiful art though.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 21 August 2014 at 12:03am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35722
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 5
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I've oft viewed The Surfer as a product of his time. Not just the obvious surf culture that was incredibly popular in the 60s, but in his attitude as well. He pushes against authority, wants peace at all costs, is anti-establishment. He's Marvel's answer to a flower child. Viewed in that context, I think he fits. Viewed as a character within the larger framework of the MU then or now he's something of an anomaly. I think that's why he's had a rough go as a star in his own book, so much so that other cosmic characters have had to be interwoven into his tale. His most successful series have seen a huge supporting cast. His least successful have featured only him and a few others.
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Robert White
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 1:40am | IP Logged | 6
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I love Stan's writing for Peter Parker, Ben Grimm and many others, I just think he may having gotten carried away with the zeitgeist of the times and decided to use the Surfer as his mouthpiece. In general, I think Stan shone best when he had the opportunity to inject humor and satire into the mix. (Dr. Strange possibly being the only exception to this.)
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Joe Hollon
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Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 3:38am | IP Logged | 7
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Here's some questions I remember about this series:
1- As I recall it ends on a total cliffhanger am I right? When did Silver Surfer appear after the final issue of this series? Did they just move on or ever try to pick up where they left off?
2- I think it's this series that also begins to make a very cloudy Silver Surfer timeline. Had it been years/decades/centuries since Norrin Radd became the Surfer?
Somewhat related note: last week I bought a 1997 reprint of the VERY hard to find Fireside SILVER SURFER graphic novel from 1978....highly recommended! It's basically an out-of-continuity retelling the the "Coming of Galactus" without any superheroes other than The Silver Surfer. I believe it was meant to be a pitch for a solo SILVER SURFER film. It's by Stan and Jack and I really enjoyed it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 4:41am | IP Logged | 8
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That series, or more exactly the first issue, was my introduction to the Silver Surfer. It came out during my "hiatus" from comic reading, and I saw it on a spinner rack in a drugstore that lay on my route to and from high school. The cover caught my eye, and I took a quick look at the interior -- impressive art! -- but, as I said, I wasn't buying or reading comics, then, so I returned it to the rack.Three years later, I started pursuing a career in comics, and caught up on the issues of FANTASTIC FOUR I'd missed since I stopped buying with #32. Over the years, I have come to much prefer Stan and Jack's "robotic" Surfer over the whole Zenn La aspect, which, it is my understanding, was Buscema's idea.
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Terry Doyle
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Joined: 09 August 2014
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 4:55am | IP Logged | 9
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Interesting analysis, Greg.
I liked the idea of the Silver Surfer from the original Kirby-Lee FF books, but never really took to the solo series and gave up after the first few issues (got too depressing with SS wallowing in his own self-pity).
The thing I didn't really like about the Surfer was the nutty surfboard. Just wish Lee & Kirby would have invented something less-conspicuously beach material.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 10
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The thing I didn't really like about the Surfer was the nutty surfboard. Just wish Lee & Kirby would have invented something less-conspicuously beach material.•• First, as Stan has stated so many times, the Silver Surfer was Kirby's creation. First time Stan knew anything about the character was when the pages came in from Jack. Second --- well, when it comes to the board, we will have to agree to disagree. I think the concept is quite brilliant.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Joined: 12 January 2005
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 11
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First, as Stan has stated so many times, the Silver Surfer was Kirby's creation. First time Stan knew anything about the character was when the pages came in from Jack. Second --- well, when it comes to the board, we will have to agree to disagree. I think the concept is quite brilliant. ``````````` I agree the first time I saw the Silver Surfer riding a surf board thru space was so nutty yet fantastic. I thought what an incredible idea. Thinking of outer space as an ocean and using the surf board was such an imaginative idea. Kirby was a genius.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 12
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"So, you're from outer space? I hear the surfing's choice!"
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Topic Closed)
