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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 1
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Remember folks, according to pros like Quesada comics were never aimed at kids. Heck, even former Marvel editor Stephen Wacker has said that Marvel Comics were never aimed at kids. It should be noted that Wacker is now currently working for Marvel's animation division in Hollywood and in a recent interview at CBR, he said that he fears adults who are way to angry about cartoons aimed at kids (a reference to people complaining about Marvel's current batch of animated TV series). It's clear that pros like Quesada,Bendis,Brubaker,and Wacker don't seem to realize that those past Marvel Comics that they themselves read as kids were aimed at kids, but were written in a layered manner so that they could also appeal to a wider all ages audience.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=55040
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 6:30am | IP Logged | 2
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I was eleven years old when I bought my first Marvel comic, FF5. If that's not a "kid," I don't know what is.This is a reflection of an all too common flaw in much of the "thinking" in the modern industry: whatever is the status quo today is assumed always to have been so. Nothing new, either. I recall Todd McFarlane calling to task people like Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and even me, for not creating Image-like entities "when they were hot." In my case, the Toddler defined this as 1975. (Surely you have not forgotten how I was burning up the stands with WHEELIE AND THE CHOPPER BUNCH?) "No sense of history" is a phrase I started using to describe the over-all condition of the industry long ago. It ranges from that fan I have talked about before, who insisted I had made "millions" working on X-MEN, thru McFarlane claiming the DSM was 35 years old when the number was closer to 10, and on thru Quesada's declaration about kids never having been the audience.
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Brad Danson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 3
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Rick Whiting wrote:
Stephen Wacker ... in a recent interview at CBR, he said that he fears adults who are way to angry about cartoons aimed at kids |
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The actual quote is:
"...there's nothing I fear less than an adult on a message board who's way too angry about a kid's cartoon!"
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2179
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 4
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One of the things that's starting to irk me is the herd mentality that one tends to see at websites regarding this and other controversial issues. Debate is all well and good (plenty of that here and elsewhere), but if you read the comments over at the Mary Sue there seems to be quite a lot of fresh-minted experts who have now decided that not only do they not like the Manara piece, they are now en masse criticizing it on technical and compositional grounds. I believe that's called "piling on". I suspect that this is a subset of confirmation bias.
BTW, The Mary Sue appears to be a fully monetized website with target ad-banners and everything. Using a Disney property as part of news story is one thing from a "fair use" standpoint, but they have generated derivative works. Do they owe royalties for that?
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James Howell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 11:43am | IP Logged | 5
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It's an unfortunate aspect of the internet, the mob mentality is heightened online, without anyone saying, "Now, wait a minute!".
Not only is everyone a critic, but everyone's an expert, even if they don't know what they're talking about.
People spread misinformation, and when called out on it, they respond with, It's my OPINION that good quality is subjective!".
They're WRONG. QUALITY is NOT SUBJECTIVE.
Worst part of that is people who don't know any better, will believe these idiots, and not check the facts themselves.
The Comic Book Art IQ of the fans goes down even further than it already has.
Edited by James Howell on 26 August 2014 at 11:49am
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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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Gotta say that I get more than a little tired of the "there are more important things to worry about" line.
***
Matt, I've been thinking about this for a while. I agree, by the way.
Friend of mine is taking medication for depression and is losing her hair (for reasons yet unknown). And yet she told me that at least two people have said, "But what about people with horrific diseases?" Comments like that invalidate a person's experience.
Yes, this is different to what you're saying, but people do have a right to talk about things. I had problems with updating the photo on my driving licence recently at a time when I was planning to hire a car. I complained and moaned. Should I not have because some people will point out what is happening in a warzone?
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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2194
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| Posted: 26 August 2014 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 7
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The actual quote is:
"...there's nothing I fear less than an adult on a message board who's way too angry about a kid's cartoon!"
_____________________
Thanks for posting the exact quote, Brad. It's funny how Wacker will mock or take a jab at adults who complain about a kid's cartoon featuring the Marvel characters, but he won't mock or take a jab at those pros or adult fans who want the Marvel and DC superhero comics (which were originally aimed at kids (I have know idea what the cut off age was back then) to be aimed at teens and adults.
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Stephen Bergstrom
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 522
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| Posted: 27 August 2014 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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I get the feeling that not only does Mark Millar hate superheroes, he hates us for liking them.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 28 August 2014 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 9
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I've been away for a few days on vacation, so missed this thread -- bummer! Can I take a moment and tell an anecdote from the gay perspective? You guys seem to have equated hyper-masculinized with good abs. The masculine equivalent of Power Girl's magnificent breasts is not an 8-pack (nor would it be massive pecs, sorry). But I've NEVER seen a male superhero with a decent package! Even the (few) examples that have been posted in this thread -- Capt Marvel and Daredevil -- have had less-than-heroic members, don't you think? When Byrne took over SUPERMAN, I fell in love with the art. Look at that broad-chested, HUNKY Superman -- what a dreamboat! Except... Okay, we know he wears underwear (seen in Superman #6) under his leggings and with the red uniform briefs over THAT, it would probably mash his goodies down pretty good. Still, I couldn't help but feel sorry for poor Clark and his less-than-super equipment -- worse, for the poor Kryptonian race (who didn't even have USE for genitals anymore). Imagine, if you will, a male superhero hung as well as Power Girl was stacked. Sigh.. I never get what I want.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132396
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| Posted: 28 August 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 10
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…so missed this thread -- bummer! •• Interesting choice of words.
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Brian J Nelson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 August 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 365
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| Posted: 28 August 2014 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 11
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Ha!
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 28 August 2014 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thank you for backing up my point, Tom!
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Topic Closed)
