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Jason Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1167
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 4:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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In addition, I think the reason the Spiderwoman behind 'sticks out' to some folks is a lot to do with the fact that the back of her outfit is all one flowing colour. Thus you start to notice the shapes of the muscles and fat layers more than you do say on a spiderman image where it's broken up by the red belt, spider etc on the back.
It's like the difference between the old Superman costume with red pants and the all flowing blue one in the Man of Steel movie. I've seen a few comments on the internet from people saying they are automatically drawn to seeing Henry Cavill's man parts because the costume doesn't have enough going on down there to draw attention from what your eyes see in that part of it. I think there's something similar going on here..
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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Why, exactly?
***
Because anything he draws is going to scream "softcore porn." Not appropriate for books which at least in theory are all-ages. Neither is that Michael Turner Power Girl JLA cover, for that matter. Neither are Ed Benes' similar drawings of Wonder Woman, Black Canary, et al in JLA. Nor was Mike Deodato's "wonder thong" style for drawing Wonder Woman in the 1990s.
Drawing overtly sexual women is fine -- in Penthouse Comix or whatever. In superhero comics it's simply disrespectful. Are male superheroes drawn with big packages, etc.? No. So the sexism should be obvious.
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Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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My issue is it doesn't fit the character or the audience for the comic
book. When Powergirl was created the joke was drawing her breasts
bigger and bigger with the opening. With Spider-Woman her character
wasn't created to be overtly sexual. It would be like giving Kitty Pryde
big breasts and putting her in a revealing costume or overly sexual
position.
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 4
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Because anything he draws is going to scream "softcore porn." Not appropriate for books which at least in theory are all-ages. Neither is that Michael Turner Power Girl JLA cover, for that matter. Neither are Ed Benes' similar drawings of Wonder Woman, Black Canary, et al in JLA. Nor was Mike Deodato's "wonder thong" style for drawing Wonder Woman in the 1990s.
Drawing overtly sexual women is fine -- in Penthouse Comix or whatever. In superhero comics it's simply disrespectful. Are male superheroes drawn with big packages, etc.? No. So the sexism should be obvious.
Ah, very good. OK!
I just wanted to make sure you weren't saying that it (drawing comic book covers) was "beneath a man of his talents" or something similar.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 5
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I dislike the width between Spider-Woman's cheeks but that's just my preference. I don't think there is anything wrong with the drawing. The face on the other hand. Looks ugly in my opinion.
About the issue of sexism on the comics page. My feelings may not be very politically correct. I say stop bitching and moaning about it.
If it's a fan complaining boo hoo. If you don't like it stop reading the book. If you are a writer or artist working with in the industry. Do something about it.
I'm no fan of the absurd depiction of women in comics. Sometimes it's pretty cool seeing a sexy chick in tights. But it's variety that makes the hot chicks look good. If all women had gravity defying boobs and stood on twigs. None of them would stand out.
I more impressed with artist who can draw regular people. JB I'm looking at you.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 21 August 2014 at 6:29pm
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 6
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It's tone-deaf, at the very least. Marvel's made real inroads toward getting new female readers in recent years, through titles like Ms. Marvel and Captain Marvel, plus the newest She-Hulk series, and spotlighting creators like Kelly Sue DeConnick and G. Willow Wilson, among others. When women visit their local comic shop after seeing the latest Marvel movie, it's great that there are more and more books on the stands that can conceivably appeal to new fans.
Spider-Woman's a character that should be tapping into that same fanbase, one that could keep the title running for years with a very loyal readership, and they're willing to flush all that away and make it into just another one of those cheesecake books that will be too offputting for women to buy and too embarrassing for men to buy.
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Brian Peck
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Anthony,
It all comes down to context and what the audience is for the book the
cover is drawn for. If Marvel wants the teenage male then this cover
caters that audience. If they want to appeal to women and girls and get
new female readership. This isn't going to work. As Andrew said, Marvel
is tone-deaf, they have zero idea on how to appeal to female audience.
Edited by Brian Peck on 21 August 2014 at 7:18pm
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Wallace Sellars
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Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17667
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 8
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I don't find the cover to be appealing, but I haven't been a part of Marvel's
target audience in a long time.
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Robert Cosgrove
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Joined: 16 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1710
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 8:16pm | IP Logged | 9
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I for one am shocked--shocked--that Milo Manara would draw such a cover. Must be an imposter. Round up the usual suspects . . . .
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 21 August 2014 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 10
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Anthony,
It all comes down to context and what the audience is for the book the
cover is drawn for. If Marvel wants the teenage male then this cover
caters that audience. If they want to appeal to women and girls and get
new female readership. This isn't going to work. As Andrew said, Marvel
is tone-deaf, they have zero idea on how to appeal to female audience.`````````````` My suggestion for dealing with the situation applies to all titles and all readers.
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Jason Schulman
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Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 12:03am | IP Logged | 11
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If it's a fan complaining boo hoo. If you don't like it stop reading the book.
***
For the record, I haven't bought Marvel or DC superhero comics in years. The frequent "hey fellas! here's some T&A for ya!" art was one of many reasons.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4067
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| Posted: 22 August 2014 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 12
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As Andrew said, Marvel is tone-deaf, they have zero idea on how to appeal to female audience.
With this particular character, at any rate. It's frustrating, because they've proven that they can be welcoming and produce more than one book at a time with a female lead. The new Storm solo book, the all-women X-Men book, She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel...for years, Spider-Girl was the lone female lead, and that seemed to give them permission to not bother publishing any others, since they never seemed to sell anyway.
There's nothing wrong with having an attractive lead character, but going all-out in an effort to bring back the worst excesses of nineties "boys club" comics is head-smackingly stupid right now.
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Topic Closed)
