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Topic: Shakespearean Shakespeare (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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John Byrne
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Grumpy Old Guy

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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 1  
Howard Mackie sent along this LINK.

Interesting in many respects. The "O.P." pronunciations sound very much like my Mother's father, who had what was called a Potteries accent.

Couldn't help noticing, tho, that in a still from one of their "accurate in every aspect" productions, there was what appeared to be a Black actress. Accurate within the bounds of Political Correctness? What would the Bard have made of that?

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 2  
Edward DeVere would probably have enjoyed it as a jape. Will Shaksper not so much.
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Conrad Teves
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 3  
That was fascinating!
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Brad Brickley
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 4  
Weren't all the actors men then? Perhaps any woman would be a shock at first. 

I've watched this before and found it fascinating. I enjoy reading and watching the evolution of language.  It's interesting to see how English has changed. It's also fun to learn the puns that have been lost. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 5  
Weren't all the actors men then? Perhaps any woman would be a shock at first.

••

Hardly the point.

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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 6  
If they're gonna go all in, then go all in (all male actors, and what have you).

Otherwise, it's not exactly "as it was", is it?

I don't see why mentioning a Black actor is even necessary when 
we don't know the backgrounds of everyone involved, which may
or may not meet whatever requirement folks may have for such
a production.

Why not just appreciate the effort, and applaud everyone for being 
skilled enough to participate?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 7  
You seem to have two contradictory thought working there, Marcel. Your first two paragraphs support my point -- don't call it "as it was" if it isn't. But then you turn 180° to say we should applaud the effort, ignoring the anachronisms.

I'm all in favor of the latter, unless you promise me one thing, but give me something else. "I know you ordered steak and I gave you chicken, but it was really delicious chicken!"

Nuh-uh!

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Marcel Chenier
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Posted: 17 September 2014 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 8  

I listened carefully to what they were saying at the introduction to 
understand what the expectation was and what they set out to 
accomplish, and it didn't include gender or race.  Not being deeply
familiar with the project, I don't know exactly what they're trying to
accomplish, precisely.

It seems, from their own description, they are trying to achieve a 
certain level of accuracy in all areas outside of gender and race.
So, if that's what they're after, it can still be enjoyed so long, as you 
say JB, that they are clear about their goals--and what it is they're
selling.




Edited by Marcel Chenier on 17 September 2014 at 5:34pm
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Adam Benford
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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 9  
Fascinating. It sounds Cornish cum Black Country ('provved' for 'proved) as Mr Byrne notes. And it makes a lot of sense to think of the new rhymes.

It would be interesting to see it done over a whole play by real actors though. I wonder how much it would grate?
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 10  
It's an interesting attempt, though there is only so much you can know about how things were pronounced, even using the evidence cited, such as contemporary accounts of how words are said.

If you were to ask someone from the UK how to pronounce 'grass' today, you would get differing answers depending on who you asked and where they came from. Some would say it rhymes with 'arse', some would say it rhymes with 'ass'. Neither are more right than the other. So to not be able to give a definitive answer today suggests things are unlikely to be clear cut for at least some words several hundred years ago.
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Matt Hawes
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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 11  
What part of the UK pronounces grass as "gr-arse"?
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Adam Benford
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Posted: 18 September 2014 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 12  
As a rule of thumb, anywhere posh/southern. Though it is a bit more complex than that. The same people who pronounce 'bath' as 'baaaaath' and generally lengthen other vowels. On the other hand, for example, the Midlands (where I am from) tends to drop consonants so 'house' becomes 'ouse'.

Edited by Adam Benford on 18 September 2014 at 2:12pm
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