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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 1
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David Miller wrote:
| Don't worry, Eric. People will continue to insist the Kirby family were the ones who sued, just like the lying liars who insist to this day Kirby himself sued Marvel in the eighties |
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Know some FACTS before you accuse people of lying....
Michael Roberts got it right:
Michael Roberts wrote:
| To be clear, Marvel sued in response to the Kirby family issuing copyright termination notices. |
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Andrew W. Farago
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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Likewise, if you're one of the millions of folks who liked the Avengers movie...Jack Kirby had nothing to do with that film.
...other than co-creating all of the major characters. It's not discounting the work of everyone who was involved with the movie or who wrote and drew Avengers comics after Kirby to give the man his proper place in history.
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David Miller
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 3
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Kevin, what was incorrect in my post?
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Kevin Brown
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 8:12pm | IP Logged | 4
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David Miller wrote:
| Kevin, what was incorrect in my post? |
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Other than the part where you're calling me a liar. Not a thing.....
(And, yes, while you did not refer to me by name, but you accused people of lying that said the Kirbys sued Marvel. Though it was either '90 or '91.)
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David Miller
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 9:20pm | IP Logged | 5
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Kevin, you are mistaken about Kirby suing Marvel. Kirby filed no lawsuit in '90 or '91, or anywhen -- and if he did so, there would be copious public record. To insist otherwise in the face of the truth is, well, lying.
By all means, produce a filing, a docket #, a citation, anything and I will admit I'm wrong. But I'm not.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 29 September 2014 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 6
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From Mark Evanier's Kirby FAQ:
It is a great urban myth of the business that Jack Kirby sued the Marvel Comics Group. There were a couple of points where he was seriously considering it and talking to attorneys, and there were also other times when he threatened it — to Marvel or in the fan press. Ultimately though, he and Roz decided that neither his health nor bank account could withstand what could have been a very long, expensive and emotional war. Still, one sometimes hears — even from folks who worked at Marvel and should know better — that Kirby sued and lost, sued and won or sued and settled. None of these happened. I think the problem was that Marvel's lawyers always overreacted. They were constantly trying to strong-arm Kirby into signing this or that, or even threatening to sue him on some trumped-up claim. Whenever he threatened them back, they got hysterical and ran around yelling, "Jack Kirby's suing us," even though, at least on those occasions, Jack wasn't considering the possibility.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 30 September 2014 at 11:35am | IP Logged | 7
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So, if that's the case, it was his kids that started the legal proceedings? Correct?
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Jason Czeskleba
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| Posted: 30 September 2014 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 8
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The Kirby estate filed for a termination of transfer of copyright in 2009, shortly after the work had become eligible to do so. Marvel responded by suing the Kirby estate, and the Kirby estate responded by countersuing. I guess you could say that filing for a termination of transfer was "starting the legal proceedings" but it's not the same as filing a lawsuit. It was Marvel who sued first.
Here's some commentary by Kurt Busiek where he discusses the case and dismisses some of the myths and distortions about it. He makes what strikes me as an excellent point... companies or individuals who purchased intellectual property prior to 1976 were given a tremendous gift by the 1976 and 1998 copyright revisions: 39 years of additional copyright, free of charge. The concept of termination of transfer was created to balance that out, by giving creators who sold their copyrights an opportunity to also benefit financially from the change in the law.
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Brian Miller
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| Posted: 30 September 2014 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 9
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Thanks for that link to Busiek's commentary, Jason. Very interesting.
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Steve Bryant
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| Posted: 30 September 2014 at 7:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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Kurt Busiek is the smartest man in comics by a light year—and that's damning him with faint praise.
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Brian J Nelson
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| Posted: 01 October 2014 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 11
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Wow. The bit from Busiek is very informative. Thanks!
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David Miller
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| Posted: 01 October 2014 at 8:14pm | IP Logged | 12
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SCOTUSBLOG has a collection of petitions and briefs filed for these case at the Supreme Court:
http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/kirby-v-marvel-ch aracters-incorporated/
Some interesting reading there.
Edited by David Miller on 01 October 2014 at 8:15pm
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